Shut Up And…
For my initial response to yesterday’s piece, click here.
I play music for a living. To some it would seem that that means I haven’t the right to give my opinion with regards to Canada’s role in Afghanistan. What differentiates an artist’s opinion from that of a plumber, doctor, cab driver, or even a politician when it comes to an issue as serious as the involvement of one’s country in a war?
The answer is quite straight forward – nothing.
We live in a society in which public discourse is of vast importance with regards to the safeguarding of democracy itself. At no time should any Canadian citizen be attacked, no matter their profession, as to their views regarding the policies of government. Like the military of this nation, its government exists at the behest of the people. That seems to be something that a great many of us have chosen to forget – that we are ultimately the ones that possess the keys to castle, not the other way around. It would seem that big media has forgotten that as well.
Tomorrow morning, were millions of Canadians to show up at the respective offices of their Members of Parliament and demand that a particular government policy be addressed, what do you think would be the outcome? Besides utter shock, it would probably result in immediate action. That is the power that we, as citizens of this country, possess. The only thing that stands in the way of the use of that power is our unwillingness to actually employ it.
To be a patriot is not to blindly support government, but rather to have the wherewithal to question it at all points and on all levels. And that truth is not altered by one’s profession. Attempts can be made to discredit an individual such as myself based on what I do for a living, but the truth is that if I can be discredited on that basis, so can all of us. Perhaps, in the end, that is the priority of Quebecor Media and others like them throughout the media world.
Yesterday’s article by Jeremy Loome was, I believe, little more than a smear piece run the day before the release of a record. Having had the night to think about it, I have chosen to cancel all interviews that I was scheduled to do with newspapers affiliated with Quebecor Media. True, I could do them and use the opportunity to tackle the subject, but, in the end, how I am represented is up to their editors. Daily’s of that ilk are certainly not beyond misrepresentation for the sake of controversy, and the convolution of context is something that has often been prevalent in pieces that their journalists have penned about me in the past. It is, given yesterday’s timely article and today’s ‘poll’, a pointless exercise, and certainly not something I am at all interested in entertaining.
Shut up and sing? Is that what it’s come to? If so, let the application of such logic prove the disservice that Quebecor Media is doing this country…
Shut up and your profession here.
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July 31st, 2007 at 8:11 am
Kudos.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:13 am
Kudos and well put, Matt.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:15 am
And what exactly are you supposed to sing about then if the society around you is off limits? Flowers, lollipops and rainbows?
That logic would have made Bob Dylan a pretty boring guy.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:17 am
Wow, that poll is ridiculous. Speaking against injustice is a responsibility we have as citizens of a democracy - it’s one of the greatest powers we hold. As someone in the public eye, your voice is heard by thousands; having strong convictions and staying silent is what would be ridiculous and hypocritical. Other artists I used to admire, who have recently decided to “shut up and sing,” are the ones who tend to lose a bit of my respect… But the fact that you use your voice is one of the things I respect most about you. So, yay Matt. :)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:20 am
Good for you Matt, you handled it the right way:)
July 31st, 2007 at 8:22 am
Waxing off of O’Reilly’s turd talk for a ’survey’. Class and brass over there at the Sun.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:30 am
have you seen there swimsuit section though?….a quality publication in my opinion.
wonder what would happen if the Sun shine girl gave her opinion….? would she be told to shut up and pose….?
Just saying is all…
where have i heard of abuses of women’s rights before?……something about being forced to wear three burlap sacks to take a shower and such….we should liberate such places….
July 31st, 2007 at 8:31 am
nice. don’t ever talk to them again; they don’t deserve it.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:31 am
FEEDBACK
On Matthew Good’s opinions on the role of Canada in Afghanistan,
Should the Winnipeg Sun just shut up and stick to news?
a) Yes
b) No
c) The Sun reports news?
[SUBMIT]
July 31st, 2007 at 8:32 am
Why is it that people today find it necessary to ridicule and mock the educated views of people as a means of what? Attention. Entertainment.
What I find funny, is that of all the things for a poll to be about in today’s paper, they choose whether or not we agree with what Mr. Good has to say. The poll is not asking questions regarding child poverty, or homelessness, or unemployment or health-care, or how about the education system. No, because people apparently aren’t interested in real issues.We have to take someone and string them up and hang them because what, they have an opinion??? I for one would like to see Mr. Good, pick up his guitar,and play it all the way to Afghanistan.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:32 am
Way to demo that rag, MG… why is it that such wannabe bastions of the free press always have names referring to the “sun” and/or “brightness”? “The Winnipeg Shadow,” or rather “Bog,” would be more appropriate… useless even for a dog looking to drop a #2 indoors…
July 31st, 2007 at 8:34 am
C’mon Matt, you are a celebrity. A Candian celebrity, but a celebrity nonetheless.
We don’t want to hear you’re views on important subjects, just tell us who you are wearing and who you think is the next Canadian idol. All this talk of injustice and propoganda really brings the masses down.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:39 am
wait… who owns The Edge?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:41 am
Quebecor Media needs to really focus on news instead of attacking people
All of the Sun newspapers are a joke the only reason anyone buys them is to check the sunshine girl
now thats what makes a classy newspaper. Matt good for you dont waste your time with that negative crap. If they planned all this to effect your new album release i dont think it will effect it at all, everyone who knows Matt Good knows what hes about. And to the rest of your i hear Matt Good is a real asshole
July 31st, 2007 at 8:44 am
This is the only response to your recoil? They just doesn’t have enough knowledge and/or is as articulate to formulate a good enough counter without screwing themselves even more.
Looks more like ‘The Sun’ were the ones that “Shut up and…..” I guess that comes from opinion though.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:45 am
Chorus owns the edge….who owns chorus….it ain’t uncle teddy is it?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:52 am
That’s fucking insulting. Sounds to me like Loome for one reason or another is not a fan of Matthew Good and is is just bitter that a musician also happens to have a mind of his own and knows about the world around him.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:54 am
Next up on tour, Matthew Good, with Opening band…The Dixie Chicks…
Are you just going to drop the newspaper, or issue a statement saying why?
Anyway, the biggest thing to ay here is Congrats on another fine, fine release!
July 31st, 2007 at 8:57 am
I’m ashamed…
The opinion piece wasn’t too bad, aside from the fact he just mentions you have a blog, and on it you talk about being against combat operations in Afghanistan. He doesn’t really get into your opinion more than just mentioning you have one. That seems kind of lazy to me, but it’s his opinion piece, so if he wants to write a piece of tripe, that’s his choice.
But the check box is just inflammatory. I’m debating whether I should write an e-mail to them, asking them to shut up and do their job, instead of flirting with tabloid-style shitmongering that will be the death of us in the profession.
This is also part of my justification for refusing to work at a daily. The bullshit is unbelievable.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:00 am
I’ve always hated the Sun.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:03 am
Yes, well put, Matthew.
And I got all fired up over on flickr before coming over here and seeing that you’d written about it.
Again, we have seen this before and I remember your older post about ‘Shut up and…’ —- the most valid counter statement I’ve seen. Perhaps you ought to have shirts made regarding that. Shut up and bah.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:04 am
Bravo. It’s been blatantly obvious to me since I was a kid that the Toronto Sun has been a peddler of anti-intellectualism and sensationalist nonsense, I guess it’s sister publication in Winnipeg is no different.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:05 am
don’t you know, a true democracy means we never challenge anyone. everything is so good that we’ll never need to. like media - it’s owned by three possibly four huge conglomerates, surely they know what is best for us, right? we’re all meant to ’shut up’ and just follow - the rich capitalists and business owners, with the support of our elected officials, will always make the decisions we’re ‘unfit’ to make.
if this is the brand of democracy that we’re so valiantly ‘fighting the good fight for’ - pretty scary. i agree that we should hardly be out preaching our brand of ‘democracy’ when for the entire existence of the british empire and canada we haven’t been able to get it right ourselves.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:05 am
… And as pointed out above, the presence of a daily swimsuit page is surely the hallmark of reputable journalism.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:08 am
I noticed they no longer have the poll and it isn’t found in their poll archives.
An enjoyable amount of silliness - no doubt. Grandstanding for the sake of commerce.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:13 am
that survey box is so idiotic, it’s almost farcical
unfortunately it (and the editorial) is also representative of the uber-simplification of issues presented to the public today in the guise of “news”.
at least we have alternatives - this site being one.
congrats on the release of your album. have a great day Matt.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:14 am
I must be tired, I actually tried to use the voting buttons.
On topic…
John Denver, a man I admire in many ways, once mentioned (on youtube) that when he joined an organization asking what he could do, he was told to keep doing as he does. He was told his music was his talent and the best method he could employ to get the message to the masses about environmental issues (yes back in the ’70’s) and animal rights. And that’s exactly what John chose to do!
Mr Good should keep doing as he does. He’s not blabbing about something he knows nothing about. You can tell the difference when someone just reads CNN’s website and runs around ranting and when someone is well read from a variety of sources.
And I don’t recall any “rant” from Matt that was not very funny. Using humour is far more successful than blatant lecturing. It is cleverly subliminal. Plant those seeds as you have been!
I have to drop a friend off at the airport, so I plan to pick up Hospital Music on my way back to N BBY (just in time for an “exciting” meeting).
What places can I find it? Walmart? London Drugs? I’d prefer to not drive downtown, it’s out of the way.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:14 am
I just went to the Winnepeg’s Sun webpage and they changed it to:
“Do you think more cops in the downtown area at night will reduce gun violence?”
Wondering if they may have changed it because of all this uproar? I should hope so, but it doesn’t change the fact that they put it up in the first place.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:15 am
Christ, is the Sun a local High School paper ???? ( no offence to any high school kids out there )
July 31st, 2007 at 9:16 am
Matt, I dont want to support the argument of the Quebecor media group. Your above reply about Loome’s smear piece is spot on, with the exception of one single line
[quote]The answer is quite straight forward – nothing.[/quote]
Because of how we idolize celebrities in our society, the difference between yourself and someone like me is that _People Listen To You_.
Its human nature to follow a leader, and because of your celebrity status you have taken a leadership role in the ongoing debate of our foreign policy.
Now I empathize with you for being defensive about an attack upon your foreign policy beliefs, but you may use this publicity in a positive way. More people are aware of your views now, right? This means that you have more people following your cause. Of course, it also means you have more people opposing you, but you have to take the good with the bad.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:16 am
After reading the comments in your related post, I saw the link to this poll. I commented on it on my Facebook page; I am not well-written nor am I prone to blogging or making my opinion heard. However Mr. Loome’s article and the “Shut Up and Play” poll particularly disgusted me. I wanted my friends to see the distasteful tactics used to silence those who don’t simply agree.
I’m glad you’ve canceled the interviews; you don’t deserve to have your words twisted by a media corporation in order to drive their sales up. I fear that had you gone ahead with them, they would have portrayed your rebuttal as nothing more than childish bickering as opposed to the well-thought-out and defended position you have so delicately explained above.
Godspeed Matt, I hope the release goes well for you; I am saddened by the many Canadians that have never heard of you or your music, or think that you have nothing of value to say.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:18 am
Storm in a teacup,tomorrow it will be Lohan or Spears grabbing the headlines.
I DO think you spend too much time on the plights of overseas oppression,military wrongdoings (my bro is in Counter Intelligence in the UK…so I have some sympathy for the military)…I think this website would benefit from some lighter subjects from Matt and everyone.
But…Free Speech and all that,carry on.
If you keep singing about whatever…all will be forgiven by your friends
July 31st, 2007 at 9:19 am
If the writer of that article yesterday really wanted to discuss the issues intelligently, you think he would have participated in the discussions for some of the entries he used to write his article, or at the very least fired you off an email with his concerns. But I suspect he did neither.
In terms of the voting box you saw today — it’s garbage and they should be embarrassed that they let that go up — they should also apologize to you publicly for it.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:20 am
Ooooh… NEVERMIND it is STILL there…. you have to click on entertainment on the left and then you will see it. Ugh…
July 31st, 2007 at 9:22 am
Mr. Good,
With respect to your blog response to my editorial, the best counterpoint you can muster for two very specific counterpoints to what you wrote is that this was a “drive-by smear” before a record release?
First of all, I’m a blues fan and musician. I don’t follow mainstream music. At all. Aside from “Hello Time Bomb” I couldn’t even name one song you’ve ever released or when it’s being released. So I have no interest in what you do for a living, let alone the fact that you’re releasing a disc. I wasn’t asked or commissioned or assigned that editorial, I wrote it because it was a subject I was going to write about anyway, and your points seemed worthy of contradiction for the sake of healthy debate.
If you find it too coincidental that this came when you were also releasing a record, try developing some humility and realizing that some people don’t really give a shit about you personally or your politics as a whole, just the opinion you scream from a pretty large pulpit. In other words, I didn’t know you were releasing a record.
Secondly, the editorial didn’t smear you. Quite the contrary, it praised the nature and construction of your argument. It disagreed with its contentions with very specific points which, apparently, you were unable to answer with counterpoints. The headline, I think, was crap. I would’ve gone with “Armed with Good Intentions” or something that made the point of the editorial. But, as you well know, writers don’t write the headlines.
So, despite your obvious belief that there was some sort of anti Matthew Good collusion going on here, you’re mistaken and, maybe, a little paranoid.
Third, do you think the Sun really gives a damn whether you give them an interview? Press benefits you, not us. Maybe the entertainment reporters do, but I’m not an entertainment reporter.
Fourth, look up my clips by Googling my name before you make up your mind about my motivations. I spend most of my time writing about the same social justice issues you do. Not everyone who works for the Sun chain is going to misconstrue everything you say or even, for the most part, disagree with you, or vote conservative. About the only thing I’ve written that is online and that you’ll likely disagree with is on moving the CBC to a PBS model. And now that I know more than I did then, I disagree with that, too.
I just disagreed with you on this issue. What the paper does in terms of headline and polling (both being silly, in my personal opinion, which I’ve stated many, many times to my employer) has bugger all to do with what I wrote, and you know it. You do this exceptionally important subject a disservice by treating it as such. You have a forum to make this a national debate, and instead, you get miffed at even being criticized.
I expected better.
Sincerely,
Jeremy Loome
July 31st, 2007 at 9:28 am
there is a response to the article in another post.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:32 am
As a journalist, it’s days like these that I am ashamed to call myself that.
Although The Sun is probably one of the worst newspapers published, it shouldn’t even be allowed to call itself that. It wants nothing more to publish garbage like this to be edgy. No one picks up The Sun as a reliable news source, if they do – I won’t even go there.
All that I know is that I am writing them a letter as of right now, an opinion may it be but it’s very one sided, just spewed out hatred.
In my opinion, I think that it is very admirable that Matt is an outspoken musician who has such strong beliefs, but he also does share the same opinions as many other canadians who aren’t heard because they aren’t in such a position.
Shut up and sing, shut up and write , shut up and flip burgers, shut up and drive - I think not, as canadians we have a right to speak freely and beleive what we want, that’s what we do. So keep it going, someones bound to hear it.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:33 am
Such a disturbing attack on you Matthew. Media such as “Quebecor Media” has no right to try to act as a representation of Canadian news. “Quebecor Media” is no different then any corporation with it’s #1 goal being profitable outcomes. Gossip and hearsay are effective methods to achieve such a goal. Corporations such as “Quebecor Media” seem to have their own right-wing agenda as do most news corparations. The bottom line for corporations such as “Quebecor Media” is to spread pro right-wing views onto the “un-informed masses” while maximiizing profit. Published articles in newspapers such as the sun all have commonalities ; they are all oblviously filled to the brim with sensationalist slander and lack promising factual information.
The true meaning of democracy has seem to have gone astray in many Canadian hearts.
I appreciate your rebuttle.
I wish I could get a copy of your album, but I’m in China for the next 3 years.
I wish you the best of luck with your new release..
July 31st, 2007 at 9:36 am
Well said.
The fact that it is a “SUN” newspaper that created such a poll and such a story doesn’t even surprise me. If the Winnipeg SUN is anything like the Toronto SUN, well, I wouldn’t put too much faith, credibility or belief into their reporting or story ideas.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:37 am
I sent the following e-mail to the Winnipeg Sun’s Entertainment editor (his e-mail may be located on the same page as the poll):
[quote]Dear Sir,
I find your poll regarding Matthew Good’s opinions to be quite distasteful. Everyone has a right to voice their opinions, and Matt is one of the most knowledgeable and well-written writers on the subject of Afghanistan and Canada’s involvement.
Personally I do not consider myself sufficiently educated on the subject to take a stance, be that agreeing or disagreeing with Matt. Regardless, I feel that you have done Matt a real disservice in general by posting not only the article “Rocker not fighting the Good Fight” but also the “Shut up and…” poll as well as performed a personal attack against his livelihood by posting these items at the time of the release of his latest album Hospital Music.
I hope you consider these thoughts carefully.
Thank you for your time,
Scott Armitage[/quote]
Matt, I hope you find my letter to the editor to be sufficiently civilized; I know it is very easy to fight back by calling names and acting utterly indignant, and I hope I have restrained these tendencies to your satisfaction in my response.
-Scott
July 31st, 2007 at 9:37 am
fuck, what a shitshow.
everyone sit back and have a frozen banana, or something.
fuck, people love to argue.
smile.
throw on some music. whatever floats your boat.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:39 am
Mr Loome
Please do dig yourself a deeper hole, and while doing so you should definitely be careful with the comments you are making for “The Sun”. Having read some columns you have written, please do spend some more time in that arena as the experience will help you, you need all the help you can get in the writing abilities you portray, proof is in the pudding my friend.
Matt
You are who you are because of the personality and open mind you bring to the blog and your music. I enjoy reading the comments and your feelings surrounding them and how you feel about our role in our country as well as others. As a huge fan it was fantastic to be at The Bear (front row in person)in Ottawa last Friday and hear some of your comments with regards to these topics as well. Thanks!
Matt Perry
July 31st, 2007 at 9:40 am
Hi Mr Loome
My issue with your article is not that you disagree with Matt, I take issue with your article on two fronts.
1) Timing
[quote]In other words, I didn’t know you were releasing a record.[/quote]
Really, truly, honestly?
2) Issue escalation
Your taking an issue Matt keeps mostly segregated to “his little piece of the internet” and attacking his argument in a widely read for-profit publication. If you disagree with his viewpoints, he has kindly given those who oppose his position a place to put their objections right along side his initial viewpoints (aka this website).
July 31st, 2007 at 9:41 am
You are right. A musician’s opinion is no different than anyone else’s. But of course what would make a better news story? A plumber who cleans pickles out of my toilet or a musician who is about to release a new CD? Besides I’m sure he knew you’d comment on it and draw further attention to his poorly written article.
I guess everyone’s got to make a living and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I suppose some people choose to sabotage another to make theirs heard a little louder.
I say keep singing regardless of what people say. You know you still have the fans to say so. They’ll always be someone to point the finger or piss in your frosted flakes. Just be sure to pour another bowl rather than giving him the pleasure of seeing you eat it.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:41 am
I have adjusted my e-mail (above) slightly as I am sure the Winnipeg Sun’s editor was not actually part of the Rocker article’s posting.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:42 am
Quoting Matthew Good:
“Tomorrow morning, were millions of Canadians to show up at the respective offices of their Members of Parliament and demand that a particular government policy be addressed, what do you think would be the outcome? Besides utter shock, it would probably result in immediate action. That is the power that we, as citizens of this country, possess. The only thing that stands in the way of the use of that power is our unwillingness to actually employ it.”
Have I told you lately that I love you? I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. Times two.
You are a great Human Being, writer and musician. An important part of our social “circle” indeed… despite the Twittering ;)
You have no clue what the above means to “me”. You inspire something very important in your readers that most papers have forgotten about, you’re right. That is one the reasons why they come back.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:49 am
Did anyone who’s bashing the article here even read it?
I’m having a hard time seeing how this is an attack on Matt Good’s character and an even harder time trying to figure out how some of you have contrued this as a right-wing Corporate conspiracy.
I suggest reading the article before commenting here.
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Opinion/Editorials/2007/07/30/4378866-sun.html
July 31st, 2007 at 9:49 am
Jeremy -
Personally, I care far less about your story and far more about that absurd poll. It’s entirely disrepectful and unprofessional.
And, furthermore, even if *you* didn’t know about the release date, the Sun’s entertainment staff should have. Tuesday is album release day; any Entertainment staff should be aware of the week’s releases, particularly the Canadian ones. Suggesting that Matt should “shut up and play his guitar” is fucking insulting, period. You claim to care about his opinions, yet your own paper insults them. Your story becomes the tie-in, making you complicit in their action.
http://winnipegsun.com/Entertainment/home.html
I don’t necessarily buy your argument that you didn’t know about the release date. (You’ve been to this site - there have certainly been a few banners around. And I strongly doubt you were the only person to read your article before it went to print - someone else at your company would have known.) But, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt, your story was paired with the poll to insult Matt on the day of his album release.
If the Sun were a professional news organization, they would kill the poll and issue an apology for it. Not for your article, mind you - I don’t think you or they need to apologize for offering an opinion. But the pairing of it with the poll crosses the line. And, for that, I question your journalistic integrity and that of the Sun. If you truly value his opinions (even if you disagree with them), you will do the right thing - either push your editors to issue an apology or issue one on their behalf.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:50 am
Then why not come here and discuss the issues yourself? — why write an article in a nationwide newspaper first?
So did everyone here with regards to your article I imagine.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:50 am
[quote comment="21139"]First of all, I’m a blues fan and musician. I don’t follow mainstream music. At all. Aside from “Hello Time Bomb” I couldn’t even name one song you’ve ever released or when it’s being released. So I have no interest in what you do for a living, let alone the fact that you’re releasing a disc.
[...]
Third, do you think the Sun really gives a damn whether you give them an interview? Press benefits you, not us. Maybe the entertainment reporters do, but I’m not an entertainment reporter.[/quote]
This is disturbing. You’re a musician with “good intentions” trying to start a “healthy” debate on a sensitive topic. Musicians should support one another; there aren’t that many of us. Regardless whether or not putting up the poll was your idea, it was still done by the SUN, and it just adds insult. Press doesn’t benefit you? Then why bother sell it at all?
[quote comment="21139"]I expected better.[/quote]
I think we all did. I’m even more disappointed. Your response is unprofessional (dropping expletives like that. Are you speaking on behalf of the Sun or yourself?). Perhaps you should shut up and play your blues.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:50 am
[quote comment="21152"]Hi Mr Loome
My issue with your article is not that you disagree with Matt, I take issue with your article on two fronts.
1) Timing
[quote]In other words, I didn’t know you were releasing a record.[/quote]
Really, truly, honestly?
2) Issue escalation
Your taking an issue Matt keeps mostly segregated to “his little piece of the internet” and attacking his argument in a widely read for-profit publication. If you disagree with his viewpoints, he has kindly given those who oppose his position a place to put their objections right along side his initial viewpoints (aka this website).[/quote]
1) Yes. I don’t listen to commercial radio, I literally don’t know another song aside from Time Bomb, and I had no idea he had a disc out this week. And I don’t decide when editorials run. The same day (about two weeks ago) that I filed that eddy, I filed others on the need for steroid testing in the CFL, the Atlantic Accords and the Catholic Church’s woeful history of exposing its own pedophile priests.
2) Issue escalation? The guy is a rock star, and uses his forum as a pulpit . I use my newspaper job as a pulpit. What exactly is a) the difference and b) wrong with asking him to use the debate constructively, instead of getting ticked off by a poll and throwing a snit?
Thanks, at least, for being the one poster here who doesn’t sound like a myopic fanboy. Perhaps, with the intent of such good grace, humility and civility rubbing off on others, you could tell me why, specifically, my actual points in the editorial were wrong. That’s what I’m objecting to: the fact that a performer has managed to frame an important debate as something personal and about him, instead of truly showing he cares about other people’s opinions.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:52 am
Oh, and take a look at which poll shows up on the Sun’s review of Matt’s record:
http://winnipegsun.com/Entertainment/Music/2007/07/29/4376875-sun.html
July 31st, 2007 at 9:56 am
I should also note, although I’m sure this will be quickly modded out, that I posted the editorial here as well, so everyone would actually know what they’re commenting on. I find it disturbing that you chose to censor that. So much for the free exchange of opinions.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:57 am
[quote comment="21105"]Quebecor Media needs to really focus on news instead of attacking people
All of the Sun newspapers are a joke the only reason anyone buys them is to check the sunshine girl
now thats what makes a classy newspaper. Matt good for you dont waste your time with that negative crap. If they planned all this to effect your new album release i dont think it will effect it at all, everyone who knows Matt Good knows what hes about. And to the rest of your i hear Matt Good is a real asshole[/quote]
I mostly bought the Sun for the Charlie Brown comics, because the sunshine girls aren’t that attractive, in my opinion.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:57 am
I don’t so much take an issue with Loome stating his opinion; whether he is correct or not is another issue. But the piece’s timing, paired with a subsequent poll that in its nature is offensive of free speech, is suspect.
Which brings me to my point: this poll is an attack on bloggers. And it’s an example of the journalism industry’s perceived superiority of itself over its checks and balances in its purest form. God forbid people decide to consider opinion independent of an industry dependent on advertising.
The medium is the message. The blog is the measure. Sounds democratic to me.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:57 am
jloome - Wordpress actually puts alot of comments with links into them as spam, so you may have to give it time.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:07 am
I have read the article, I have read the comments posted, and it seems as though everyone is divided on their stance regarding our involvement in Afghanistan, and apparently people are divided on the motives some people have, for expressing themselves and their points of view regarding this situation.What I would like to say is that, whether you support the idea of having troops deployed in Afghanistan, or whether you support the idea of withdrawing them, the fact that we have the freedom to debate this in the first place, is evidence
of our free way of life. A way of life that far too many people in today’s society, and in society’s past never get to experience.
Mr.Good has his reasons for expressing himself through his music, his web-site, and now his petition. From what I see, his views are based on life experience, educating himself on the situations and topics he chooses to discuss, and his right not only as a Canadian citizen, but as an inhabitant of this planet to speak without fear and repercussions of his points of views.And it is up to every individual to decide for themselves on which side of the fence they choose to sit regarding this issue.
To Mr. Loome, I say, you sir have just written the most talked about article of your career.To bad, you used your space provided as a means of abuse and slander towards someone whom to you may only be a “Rock Star” with ulterior motives for speaking his points of view, but to many, may be a breath of fresh-air in an otherwise shallow and stagnant pool of opinion.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:12 am
I’m all for Mr. Loome’s attempt at debate. Unfortunately, they don’t require Logic 101 in journalism school. I’m generalizing but they didn’t at my university and much of our local publications suffer for it. Maybe it’s my formal training that allows me to understand the difference between an invalid and a weak argument. I’d like to think otherwise. So go ahead Mr. Loome, argue the point but at least do with better reasoning than something a 17 year old seminar student would come up with.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:14 am
In case anyone cares, and regardless of whether it gets me in trouble for stating it (although I don’t think it will), I agree with all of you on the poll. It was stupid.
In fact, most ‘quick answer to to a simple question’ polls that litter newspaper sites are stupid. Exceptionally so, as they stifle the breadth of debate required to work through important social issues.
Should the Sun apologize for the poll? The Sun, and every other media outlet out there but particularly us, should probably apologize for a lot of things that serve little else but to dumb down the public. It won’t ever happen, because — as with Mr. Good’s original post — freedom of speech means never having to say you’re sorry.
But there are exactly two major newspaper chains left in this country; until the public starts pressuring them to produce material of more consequence, they’re going to do what every business considers its responsiblity: make money for their shareholders. Whether that’s through simplistic polls, or simplistic news, or complex news, or complex polls, is up to whatever moves the most papers off the shelves. That’s reality.
Having said that, I’d invite anyone who thinks the newspaper business is as simple as a bunch of corporate drones simply repeating what their evil overlords tell them to take up the same challenge I gave Mr. Good: Google my other articles and read them. Then get back to me on whether the Sun, for all the things I dislike about it, is forcing me or anyone else who works for it to produce nothing but tripe. No newspaper lets its reporter write 16 page — 16 pages — over four days on the Workers Compensation Board screwing the public if it is a tightly controlled, ideology- driven organization. No newspaper lets a reporter write about the determinants present in poverty that lead to obesity and the social consequences of malnutrition unless they’re giving their writers some leeway to do their job. Or the need for subsidized daycare. Or the perils of mental illness. Or any other number of things that, if I were the Conservative tab slug people here seem to assume, I would spend my time writing about.
I’m not going to sit here and defend what I do for a living beyond that, because I don’t have to. I will, however, urge you all to consider that most points of contention — whether it’s blogging or eddies on Afghanistan or anything else — have a rationale middle ground open for debate by people who actually want to be informed, and not simply slag what they don’t like, ad infinitum, which is how Mr Good reacted to my piece.
Is my industry response for that middle ground shrinking? Yes. But the industry isn’t run by the people who work for it, most of whom get into journalism for the right reasons.
Jeremy Loome
July 31st, 2007 at 10:29 am
[quote comment="21180"]Mr. Loome- you are a prick, end of conversation.
Cheerio![/quote]
mattgoodluvr: I don’t think that kind of comment is pertinent in any way. If you read the post of the only two people concerned by the matter, you will realize that no insults were thrown at any time. Some people have to learn to stop defending Matt all the time especially by insulting the one he is arguing with. This has happened quite a lot in the past and still does and I think it gives Matthew Good fans a really bad name.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:35 am
Oh, I apologize for quoting it then :P
July 31st, 2007 at 10:38 am
[quote comment="21179"]Unable to answer with counterpoints? Perhaps you should read my response to the article again. Better yet, why don’t you actually search the archives of this website and read the rather extensive pieces I have written on the subject. Not only that, but your piece was so utterly generalized that it held no water. It was replete with scare-tactic patriotism, and did indeed smear me by suggesting that my views on operations in Afghanistan do not take into account those in service. And frankly, I could care less who came up with the headline, if you have no control over that, then refuse to run it. And if it is run, take responsibility for it and its connotation, don’t be a coward and pass the buck.
Actually, I have not done this subject a disservice whatsoever, nor am I at all uncomfortable with being criticized. But the fact remains that your article used the simplest of terms to address a situation that is vastly complex, and one that I have address in a manner that takes into consideration such complexities. Our role in Afghanistan is not a black and white matter, nor is the nation itself, nor is its new found democracy. The situation itself is mired in contradictions and complicities that are never addressed, nor added to discussions about our role there. It is always presented as a cut and dry issue, and it is anything but. To render it as such is the actual disservice here.
ISAF’s mandate was, in the beginning, and as of its creation on December 20th of 2001, to police Kabul. That mandate lasted for two years - until 2003 when the United States reallocated much of its resources to Iraq. Our role was then altered and we became increasingly involved in combat operations. That has been spun to fit the ‘deliverance of freedom’ bill, and is rarely seen for what it is - ISAF covering the ass of the Americans, under whose command we originally were at the outset.
Were we in Afghanistan wearing blue helmets that would be one thing, but that is not the case. We are part of a multinational force largely secured by the United States by way of an antiquated NATO Charter and their influence at the United Nations to help cover their agendas elsewhere. This is one of the aspects overlooked time and again when examining how the Taliban has been able to reform and become a viable fighting force after being dispossessed. That said, the history of guerrilla resistance movements in Afghanistan must then be examined. The Soviets, a world power at the time, spent more than a decade in Afghanistan fighting men armed with little more than AK47’s. They, on the other hand, had some of the world’s most advanced weaponry at their disposal. True, the US and the like are no longer hiding in the shadows pumping money and arms into their cause, but ruling out the Pakistani ISI at this point would be naive.
Last year, Taliban guerrilla’s held at the Helmand River against the Royal Marines, an immense barrage of artillery, and air strikes. They did it with shoulder weapons, RPG’s, and mortars. Such are not the skills, nor the actions, of a force that can be wholly exterminated without confronting a very serious reality – that to defeat a guerrilla resistance you not only have to exterminate them, but act in violent manner against those civilians that act as their support mechanism. Thus, to accomplish their eradication, we must be prepared to not only do so in areas such as Helmand Province, but in other locations, such as Waziristan in Pakistan. We must be willing to widen the conflict, act unilaterally as a force against militants in Pakistan, and deal with the consequences of those actions. Let’s not forget that Pakistan is a nuclear power, and of late not entirely happy with American suggestions that they will, in fact, act unilaterally against targets in Waziristan whether the Musharaff government likes it or not. They have ample reason – militants in that region have opted out of a peace agreement signed last fall with the Pakistani government and have since undertaken attacks against Pakistani military targets.
The rise of the Taliban would not have been possible without the support of Pakistan, at least certain factions within it, including the ISI. True, Bin Laden may have provided finances, but the problem of defeating the movement itself does not end at the border. And that is something that isn’t discussed. Instead, reports about Iranian involvement make headlines, while little hard evidence is provided beyond the fact that Soviet era munitions are being sold to the Taliban by racketeers.
You see, this is not a simple issue of Canadian soldiers fighting in Afghanistan to defeat an enemy that is well defined. It is, in truth, a complex enemy with a support network that spans a border.
Returning to the point, we both know that the hard decision can’t be made, because once civilian casualties start to mount the more popular the Taliban’s resistance will become amongst certain Afghans, which will complicate matters even more.
So here we find ourselves, in a situation that is far more complex than simply the deliverance of democracy. It is one that is more akin to a Chinese finger trap than anything else. Therefore, a bit piece glorifying generalities is basically trite.[/quote]
Good answer, although it could do without all the snide asides. I get 350 words; if you want to know why it’s simplistic, it’s because the position wasn’t as complicated as the research that went into arriving at it.
But let me ask you this: assuming we agree that the ideological impetus behind the Taliban is broader than Afghanistan’s borders, how do ever — ever — stand up to the theocratically driven imposition of dictatorship? How does the reality of hardcore salafism and its desire to essentially enslave other beliefs (we’re not talking about evangelicals here, but people who preach a one-world caliphate) without militarism? How can a country life Afghanistan develop along the kind of pluralistic, tolerant lines of division as the developed world if the people with the muscle and the guns simply don’t allow pluralistic tolerance?
Is it , in your opinion, a case of waiting for critical mass, as with the collapse of the eastern bloc? Give me a realistic alternative and show me how it applies to this region, where the ideologies at play are religiously driven and not just political ideology. There is a significant body of sociological research (Dr. Andy Newberg’s reserach at the University of Pennsylvania chief among it) that suggests faith is a chemically driven defence mechanism that most of us simply cannot ignore, due to biological predeterminants. So it’s apples and oranges to compare the Taliban and their ilk, which base their actions and governance in hard-core faith, with the demise of political theories like communism.
So where does the answer lie, Mr. Good? Do we simply leave, see which faction manages to wrestle a few years of control and say ‘oh well, I guess they weren’t ready yet?’ I’m not a militarist, and yet I see nothing in your argument that proposes a sensible alternative. If this mission were re-cast as a UN peacekeeping exercise, which is what it should be, would that satisfy your position?
And as for me “slurring” you by saying you don’t account for the volunteer nature of the mission, did I miss something here or did you take that into account somewhere in your survey (which again, I note, is about pulling out, not resolving Afghanistan’s issues)?
Jeremy Loome
p.s. It’s hardly cowardly to not take responsibility for a headline. As previously noted, the eddy was written three weeks ago in Edmonton, the headline was written yesterday in Toronto. Writers don’t get to see their copy on the page before it runs, so I wouldn’t have had anything to object to. Know something about the business you’re criticizing before you take such a bold position.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:38 am
Dissent against the government of mainstream media in a time of “war” and you are called unpatriotic.
Welcome to the US post 9-11 and the build up to the Iraq war.
Questioning the government and it’s decisions are what make a democracy work. Unfortunately, people are less and less likely to do this for fear of the consequences.
I appreciate the fact that someone in your position actually gives a crap about what is going on in this world and has a very informed opinion. (Plus makes amazing music)
Keep up the good fight Matt! Good luck on the drop of your new album!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:43 am
Jeremy,
You remind me of some of the articles I have read for secondary school, where we had to critique them. One flaw in your approach is your word choice. Instead of sounding professional, you sound bitter and ranting. That reduces your credibility. Think about it, can you tell your boss exactly how you feel and actually make a difference? no. What if you worded it more to his liking but the main points were still made? You would sound more intelligent and people would take you more seriously.
Let me explain with quotes (and maybe DGephardt can see that there is reason for people to see this as an attack).
1) “That alone puts him well above the maddening crowd of big-mouth celebrities.”
July 31st, 2007 at 10:46 am
It is tortured logic put forward to attempt to shut you up. These are the people who would have guys like Steven Connell speak exclusively of things like prosody, iambic pentameter and dactylic hexameter. E.g. “Stick to what you know Steve (and Matt)”
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Steven Connell &search=
July 31st, 2007 at 10:48 am
Ah, you’ve gotta love the politics of news media.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:49 am
Damn! I lost the rest of what I wrote, I had this explanation and it is all gone! :(
In short, the opening line excites emotion and with emotions excited, you can’t produce a compelling argument.
The premises given when someone is succumbed by emotion are full of logical flaws and thus their conclusion is flawed.
One way to notice if an argument is lacking logical premises that support the concluding argument, is to look for use of emotion.
Clouded emotions, as we all know, prevent logic and reasoning from prevailing. Perhaps you intended to excite emotion to discredit Mr Good.
I will say Mr Good’s replies have been full of logic and valid premises, rather than emotional opinions. That’s a good sign to look for when trying to have a logical debate. Emotional responses only reduce the chances of arriving at any sort of conclusion of practical use.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:51 am
Sorry, the URL in that last comment was somehow mangled. Try this one instead.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Steven Connell &search=
July 31st, 2007 at 10:51 am
Mr. Loome,
Why do you keep bending the term volunteer army to imply that each and every soldier signed up for and supports this single mission? By sleight of hand, you’ve taken the fact that soldiers in Canada are not conscripted into service and hence they are volunteers that agree with each and every duty they’re assigned.
Furthermore implicit in your argument is that the opinions of those in service somehow know better to decide issues of foreign policy than the individual at home that are ultimately responsible for choosing those policies (by proxy of course).
Even larger at issue and certainly one your editorial can’t possibly cover is the assumption that democracy must be imposed even through foreign military support. Quite simply, this assumption ignores economic fact and its correlation with systems of government. There’s a strong correlation between feudal agrarian societies and authoritarian governments. Imposing democracy via force is first antithetical to its premises and second ignores simple economic fact. Fixing a region’s economic woes (if it even can be fixed) takes greater bravery and stronger will than just killing all the “bad guys”.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:51 am
I find it terribly hard to believe you in stating you had no idea about the release of a new album.
First off, to actually have any idea to write an article about Mr. Good you have to frequent this website to read his blogs. That is all fine and good, but Matthew doesn’t write his blogs in a filed fashion, it is purely chronological. So his war statements, posts, links, etc. are continuously mixed with his music updates.
A couple that come to mind date back a decent ways, from the post of his release date of the album (dated May 29 ‘07) and the website update (May 11 ‘07) of which the whole freaking website became cluttered with news about the album. Not to mention constant music updates throughout his blogs and side bar. I just do not believe you that you: a) haven’t read the website 3 months b) haven’t noticed anything about music. c) ignorant as hell.
It was a good try, but you knew.
Cheers,
Brett
July 31st, 2007 at 10:56 am
[quote comment="21176"]In case anyone cares, and regardless of whether it gets me in trouble for stating it (although I don’t think it will), I agree with all of you on the poll. It was stupid.[/quote]
Thanks for saying that.
[quote comment="21176"]But there are exactly two major newspaper chains left in this country; until the public starts pressuring them to produce material of more consequence, they’re going to do what every business considers its responsiblity: make money for their shareholders. Whether that’s through simplistic polls, or simplistic news, or complex news, or complex polls, is up to whatever moves the most papers off the shelves. That’s reality.[/quote]
I would objectively (hopefully) argue journalistic integrity is everybody’s responsibility. Newspaper chains & public alike. It is what it is though. And I think strong bloggers provide efficient checks and balances.
[quote comment="21176"]Having said that, I’d invite anyone who thinks the newspaper business is as simple as a bunch of corporate drones simply repeating what their evil overlords tell them to take up the same challenge I gave Mr. Good: Google my other articles and read them. Then get back to me on whether the Sun, for all the things I dislike about it, is forcing me or anyone else who works for it to produce nothing but tripe. No newspaper lets its reporter write 16 page — 16 pages — over four days on the Workers Compensation Board screwing the public if it is a tightly controlled, ideology- driven organization. No newspaper lets a reporter write about the determinants present in poverty that lead to obesity and the social consequences of malnutrition unless they’re giving their writers some leeway to do their job. Or the need for subsidized daycare. Or the perils of mental illness. Or any other number of things that, if I were the Conservative tab slug people here seem to assume, I would spend my time writing about.[/quote]
Once I am finished responding, I am certainly going to read some of your other work. I will throw it out there though, in my opinion, the Sun has put you in a tough spot by skewing the intentions of your opinion piece by adding a poll that is offensive of promoting confidence in others sharing their opinions; it’s also detrimental to eliciting an open dialogue on the issue.
I hope my previous post, if you read it, was not interpreted as an attack on your intentions. My issue is with the poll… even if I don’t agree with you : )
Final comment: It must be difficult being limited to word counts when you’re trying to convey a complete picture.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:04 am
[quote comment="21201"][quote comment="21176"]In case anyone cares, and regardless of whether it gets me in trouble for stating it (although I don’t think it will), I agree with all of you on the poll. It was stupid.[/quote]
Thanks for saying that.
[quote comment="21176"]But there are exactly two major newspaper chains left in this country; until the public starts pressuring them to produce material of more consequence, they’re going to do what every business considers its responsiblity: make money for their shareholders. Whether that’s through simplistic polls, or simplistic news, or complex news, or complex polls, is up to whatever moves the most papers off the shelves. That’s reality.[/quote]
I would objectively (hopefully) argue journalistic integrity is everybody’s responsibility. Newspaper chains & public alike. It is what it is though. And I think strong bloggers provide efficient checks and balances.
[quote comment="21176"]Having said that, I’d invite anyone who thinks the newspaper business is as simple as a bunch of corporate drones simply repeating what their evil overlords tell them to take up the same challenge I gave Mr. Good: Google my other articles and read them. Then get back to me on whether the Sun, for all the things I dislike about it, is forcing me or anyone else who works for it to produce nothing but tripe. No newspaper lets its reporter write 16 page — 16 pages — over four days on the Workers Compensation Board screwing the public if it is a tightly controlled, ideology- driven organization. No newspaper lets a reporter write about the determinants present in poverty that lead to obesity and the social consequences of malnutrition unless they’re giving their writers some leeway to do their job. Or the need for subsidized daycare. Or the perils of mental illness. Or any other number of things that, if I were the Conservative tab slug people here seem to assume, I would spend my time writing about.[/quote]
Once I am finished responding, I am certainly going to read some of your other work. I will throw it out there though, in my opinion, the Sun has put you in a tough spot by skewing the intentions of your opinion piece by adding a poll that is offensive of promoting confidence in others sharing their opinions; it’s also detrimental to eliciting an open dialogue on the issue.
I hope my previous post, if you read it, was not interpreted as an attack on your intentions. My issue is with the poll… even if I don’t agree with you : )
Final comment: It must be difficult being limited to word counts when you’re trying to convey a complete picture.[/quote]
Chris: Bloody impossible, actually. It’s very frustrating. And the Sun frequently puts me in a tough spot; it does, however, allow me to open my fat yap and put it in a tough spot from time to time by openly criticizing it.
As for whether newspapers also share the public’s responsibility to raise the level of debate, you’re right; but 20 years in this biz has told me to never expect any business to take the social initiative. It’s frequently contrary to why they exist, which is to make money.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:06 am
I just don’t understand how it’s possible to both shut up and sing.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:11 am
well concluded zozo
July 31st, 2007 at 11:12 am
Mr.Loome, if you are going to criticize an individual’s belief, especially on a pressing issue such as Canada’s role in Afghanistan, you must have a well developed rebuttal. You have simply used the rhetoric of nationalism, and did not provide any substance to your argument. If you had provided some solid facts, or a clearly developed opinion, than perhaps I would have taken your editorial piece more seriously. As far as I am concerned this work is no different than the other Conservative jockeys out there.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:15 am
[quote]As for whether newspapers also share the public’s responsibility to raise the level of debate, you’re right; but 20 years in this biz has told me to never expect any business to take the social initiative. It’s frequently contrary to why they exist, which is to make money.[/quote]
So then whose responsibility is it? Certainly there have been plenty of examples of journalists that have driven through the hole of controversy to elevate debate. Edward R. Murrow is a prime and easy example.
It’s better to take a 350 word allotment and make one well thought out point than multiple poorly constructed ones.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:16 am
[quote comment="21193"]Jeremy,
You remind me of some of the articles I have read for secondary school, where we had to critique them. One flaw in your approach is your word choice. Instead of sounding professional, you sound bitter and ranting. That reduces your credibility. Think about it, can you tell your boss exactly how you feel and actually make a difference? no. What if you worded it more to his liking but the main points were still made? You would sound more intelligent and people would take you more seriously.
Let me explain with quotes (and maybe DGephardt can see that there is reason for people to see this as an attack).
1) “That alone puts him well above the maddening crowd of big-mouth celebrities.”[/quote]
Your quote seems to be a compliment of Matt Good to me.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 am
I dont always agree with what you state Matt, but damn straight. You are 100% correct here.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:20 am
quoting Jloome: So, despite your obvious belief that there was some sort of anti Matthew Good collusion going on here, you’re mistaken and, maybe, a little paranoid.
Jloome, not enough celebrities are responding to negative things written about them, they just shut up and sing, and say nothing…. Matthew has been described as Canada’s most outspoken Musician….. love it or hate it, it’s who he is… he takes the good with the bad, i’m sure, but he’s someone who doesn’t keep quiet….he didn’t like what he read, so he talked about it.. that is what this website is for. This is Matthew’s site..and I’m pretty sure people that love and respect him registered to become a user of the site so that they can be there for him and support him and his views.. I have no idea why you took the time to register for this site then come on here saying you have no respect for him.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:23 am
[quote comment="21214"][quote comment="21193"]Jeremy,
You remind me of some of the articles I have read for secondary school, where we had to critique them. One flaw in your approach is your word choice. Instead of sounding professional, you sound bitter and ranting. That reduces your credibility. Think about it, can you tell your boss exactly how you feel and actually make a difference? no. What if you worded it more to his liking but the main points were still made? You would sound more intelligent and people would take you more seriously.
Let me explain with quotes (and maybe DGephardt can see that there is reason for people to see this as an attack).
1) “That alone puts him well above the maddening crowd of big-mouth celebrities.”[/quote]
Your quote seems to be a compliment of Matt Good to me.[/quote]
No, I or Firefox or my network connection messed up.
I posted the short version afterwards. I was quite updset at the messup because I quite liked what I had written. It basically said that the quote was calling Mr Good a bigmouth, which I thought was inappropriate and discrediting to the intentions of the article. Hence my addition of the stuff about emotion that was later posted.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:25 am
[quote comment="21203"]Yes, as I have stated in the past, a UN sanctioned mission under direct UN command would be far better.
But to answer you question, does it end with Afghanistan?
What of Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? Sudan? When exactly do we stop using military force to crush Salafism? There are a billion Muslims in this world, do you honestly believe that an entire religion would allow itself to be so corrupted to the point that it sought a global Caliphate? Is so little faith placed in them? We’ve fought proxy wars for decades, so why not fund the UIF to deal with the Taliban? After all, they’d been at war for the better part of a decade anyway? In truth, UIF members make up a considerable portion of the government, so it’s not like ensuring democracy would have been an issue. Or would it have? I suppose that depends on whether they’d be forced to nix their lucrative poppy operations.
The invasion of Afghanistan was a knee jerk reaction to 9/11. The Taliban was a secondary consideration after al-Qaeda. Now it has become the foremost consideration. Prior to 9/11, members of that regime were visiting the United States discussing a proposition regarding a pipeline. After 9/11 they became the devil. We did not invade Afghanistan in 1999. Why? They were guilty of the same crimes as they were in 2001. The country was largely governed by those that sought to oppress. So why wasn’t it done then?
We do business with devils every day. We create them as well. The promotion of Islamic fundamentalism was used as a way to destabalize Soviet border regions. The West funded the Afghan Mujahideen, from which the Taliban spung. And while the Saudis expelled Bin Laden, they were one of only three nations to recognize the Taliban’s legitimacy - even though Bin Laden had helped fund the movement. What is their position today regarding the Taliban? Well, it would be whatever the people about to do a $20 billion dollar arms deal with them want it to be.
Afghanistan is about collateral damage. Freedom an after thought, and more to placate US domestic political concerns than anything else. That said, I have press for the rest of the day, so I’ll not be online.
Oh, and regarding the title, I don’t care what business you’re in. Your name is under that title, the exuse that it was penned by others holds absolutely no weight with me whatsoever.[/quote]
Okay, leave your rebuttal tomorrow., You still haven’t given me an alternative — you’re missing my larger point, which is that now that we’ve created a situation where many people in Afghan society have freedoms they’ve never had before, we can’t just pull out and leave them to it, because it will collapse.
I AGREE WITH YOU on the fact that we went in for the wrong reasons. And if this were six years ago, I’d also advocate not going in after the U.S for all the wrong reasons. But we’ve created a mess there that we now need, on some level, to see through. Whether that’s as a UN force or as an individual nation, the reality is that there still has to be a Canadian military presence there to protect the few freedoms these people have received as a result of this conflict. If that sounds simplistic, it might be that us secular humanists don’t really want to go back to the days of women being hung in public for reading.
I look forward to your proposed resolution, as I’m sure it’s something more noble than the “leave them to their own devices” tack.
Oh, and regarding the title, I don’t care what business you’re in. Your name is under that title, the exuse that it was penned by others holds absolutely no weight with me whatsoever.[/quote] — Uh, why exactly? I’ve publicly denounced the headling and the poll here, what exactly would you consider to be an appropriate response? Resigning my career and selling the house? On that latter point, you’re just being a prick.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:27 am
Can anyone explain to me why there was no review in the Province today on Hospital Music, not even Matthew on the cover of the paper?
I woke up, expecting to read about the new album and NOTHING…
Today is all about Matt though, I’m having a shitty day, but I hope Matthew isn’t.
t
July 31st, 2007 at 11:32 am
[quote comment="21222"][quote comment="21203"]
… On that latter point, you’re just being a prick.[/quote]
Where is my “I heard Matthew good is an a**hole” t-shirt when I need it! HA!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:39 am
Man what luck for your article and this poll to be run the day Matt’s Album comes out. Matt you got to stop putting out albums every week and avoid future mishaps. I will let Matt defend himself cause im not the least informed about these matters. All i know this world is an **** up place, and that cash is king. Hey that sounds like a nice title to a song. Matt thanks for trying to educate your fans in world events and issues. Mr. Loome i hear the new kissology CD is due out august 14th better get writing. Ive already worked out a poll for you
Should Kiss : 1) shut up and paint their faces 2) just die already 3) go away…enough with these guys…..dont you know i love the blues.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:39 am
The Sun guy needs to calm down. I’m sure his bosses wouldn’t be too happy about this lack of restraint. He should just walk away.
I personally am pleased when a rag like the Sun stoops to this level. Little polls like this just add to its already stellar reputation as this country’s #1 chain of dirtsheet tabloids.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:46 am
[quote comment="21083"]And what exactly are you supposed to sing about then if the society around you is off limits? Flowers, lollipops and rainbows?
That logic would have made Bob Dylan a pretty boring guy.[/quote]
Touche!
July 31st, 2007 at 11:48 am
Can someone educated in this matter answer some questions for me
1) Did there exist training bases for terror cells in Afganistan during the Taliban’s reign?
2) If 1 is Yes, Was the Taliban government asked to put a stop to these training bases pre-invasion and refuse?
3) If 1 is Yes, Did the Taliban support these terror cells in any way?
Yes/No answers please.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:52 am
[quote comment="21097"]have you seen there swimsuit section though?….a quality publication in my opinion.
wonder what would happen if the Sun shine girl gave her opinion….? would she be told to shut up and pose….?
Just saying is all…
where have i heard of abuses of women’s rights before?……something about being forced to wear three burlap sacks to take a shower and such….we should liberate such places….[/quote]
lol totally agree!
July 31st, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Hey Matt, they chose to run an article on you which means that you’re getting to someone and your voice is being heard. It is better than no one writing about your views at all. What this means is that your views are getting to the wider public, and that people are paying attention.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:09 pm
I think the point of this interesting and thought provoking debate is…..350 words.
Matthew Good cannot solve the Afghanistan riddle in 350 words, which is why he’s read thousands of words of news on the topic and written thousands of words of commentary, most of which I’ll bet Jeremy Loome has not read.
Jeremy Loome cannot adequately, fairly and accurately relate Matthew Good the “rocker” to Matthew Good the human rights activist and political blogger in 350 words.
The only way Jeremy Loome’s piece gets read enough to appease the Sun is if he uses his 350 words to spin Matthew Good’s participation in this complicated and delicate topic in a negative and sensationalized fashion. Want someone to look? Wreck the sportscar.
Jeremy Loome could have spent those 350 words focusing the actual content of MatthewGood.org and how he uses this site to promote social debate and turn music fans into free thinkers. He could have used the 350 words to point out the tireless work Matthew Good has done finding (and noting) many sources of information to support his commentaries, all of which encourage “Pothead Rock fans” to actually read something more than the lyrics in an accompanying CD booklet. Jeremy Loome could have used those 350 words to point out that although Matthew Good’s opinion on Afghanistan is different than his own, he cannot help but be encouraged by the effort this “rocker” has made to validate and support any thought on Canadian foreign policy he might have. But who’s going to read that? What a snoozefest!
Mr. Loome, just as it has taken Matthew Good much more than 350 words to get his points across to me, a regular blog reader AND music fan, I think your article is going to require roughly 7 more parts, or the equivalent amount of effort that Matthew Good has put in his multi-part essay on the topic of Afghanistan here on on this website, for me to even take your counter argument on Afghanistan under consideration.
I look forward to reading your next 6 chapters on your Afghanistan view. You’ve got some more research to do. I’m afraid you’re going to need your own blog to get that published though, because I’m damn sure The Sun isn’t going to devote that much ink to something so important. After all, there’s bikini-clad women to check out and celebrity arrests to detail.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
You’re a class act, Mr. Loome. Let the name-calling begin! Who will be the first to say, “douche bag”?
July 31st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
[quote comment="21235"]Hey Matt, they chose to run an article on you which means that you’re getting to someone and your voice is being heard. It is better than no one writing about your views at all. What this means is that your views are getting to the wider public, and that people are paying attention.[/quote]
Apologies for the double-post, but I agree. In the end all publicity is good publicity…for both of these guys, actually.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
[quote comment="21222"] You still haven’t given me an alternative…
I look forward to your proposed resolution, as I’m sure it’s something more noble than the “leave them to their own devices” tack.[/quote]
He did. Countless times. It’s called the search function. He’s been a broken record on precisely this topic for a very long time almost to the point of redundancy.
You called him out, you tried to put the onus on him, when in reality you should have just done better research. That you still beg him for answers to questions he’s already answered makes this look all the more silly.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:32 pm
[quote]Wreck the sportscar.[/quote]
Did someone say Eddie Griffin?
July 31st, 2007 at 12:54 pm
How did anyone even find out about this poll? I fail to believe anyone would read that “paper”.
Jeremy says he doesn’t give a shit about what you do for a living Matt. Tell me Jeremy if you’re still kicking around this little thread, who gives a shit about you? Riiiiight.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:55 pm
[quote comment="21218"]I have no idea why you took the time to register for this site then come on here saying you have no respect for him.[/quote]
I think some of the commentors here are getting out of hand. The mere fact that Jeremy bothered to sign up for an account to comment here says something of his respect for Matt’s opinion. In his shoes, I’d be hesitant to jump into the shark tank with rabid fans snapping at every turn. But he did anyway, just to be clear on what he was trying to say.
You can ravage and question and accuse him all you want, but this will be my last comment on the topic. Loome’s not a bad guy, nor did he set out to disparage anyone. The kids can come up with conspiracies all they want, but he’s already explained that it was written a week ago - thus making the suspicious timing argument a moot point against him.
If you guys are so into telling the media how to do their job, then walk the walk and do your own investigation. Find out who ordered the editorial, and who put up the survey. Loome wrote his editorial within restrictions set before him. I won’t say he did a marvelous job, but if we’re going to get into the topic of personal regrets, I’m sure there’s not a person in here who has nothing that they wish would just disappear. Writing editorials is part of the job and sometimes the articles don’t do justice to the topics they attempt to broach. Does that mean they shouldn’t be written? Well folks, now there’s a conundrum.
This kind of bullshit is just immature. I really don’t know what to make of it when good people are at each other’s throats. Matt’s reputation, at this point in his life and in his career, should be above reproach. The only people who hate Matt have hated him since long before these silly newspaper shenanigans, and that has not changed with anything that’s happened in the last 48 hours. Those who adore Matt still adore him now, regardless of what’s been said.
Loome, on the other hand, has been demonized, and unlike Matt, he has no fan base to back him up. I would think that since most of you are so keen to talk big, that you’d respect someone with enough grit to come in solo versus a mob to try and plead his case.
The lynch mob that’s present here today says Loome is guilty, but as anyone who knows me here can attest, I hate mobs, and I wish all of you would wake up and realize what it is you’re saying, and also realize that we’re all on the same side.
That being said, being on the same side doesn’t mean we have to agree with each other, but it does mean that the benefit of the doubt should be given on occassion. What ever happened to the high road, folks?
July 31st, 2007 at 12:55 pm
lol, I don’t think you need to send him a private email, and you don’t really need to call him out more than what has already been done.
I am sure Mr. Good already realizes that there are a many number of us (more than those that have just posted) that support him at a musician as well as an activist.
I also don’t think you need to slag his band that he follows, after all, everyone has their own opinion :P
Cheers,
B
July 31st, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Why are some of you attacking Mr. Loome? At least he had the balls to come to this site and attempt to back-up his article. He already said he had nothing to do with the title of the article, nor the web poll.
Frankly, I don’t see why this article has caused such an uproar in the first place. He disagreed with Matt’s viewpoint and wrote about it - so what?
July 31st, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Firstly, comments with excessive swearing, name-calling and the like are not well-tolerated here by the admin, readers or Matthew, and, though we’d prefer not to, end up moderated or removed. Whether you’re a editorial writer or a fan, there’s no excuse for belittlement and ad hominem attacks.
Secondly, to JLoome, as Matthew wrote he’ll be unable to repsond for the day given his schedule. I would advise you to read his extensive peices on Afghanistan and his position regarding our role in the Archives, found under Series & Best Of.
While you demand he provide detailed alternatives, it is well-known to visitors here, and of course Matthew himself that he has repeatedly articulated his research regarding Canada’s involvement in Afghanistan and his position regarding it.