p.s. Thanks for posting that. I sat on my couch wondering and hoping you would post something … I’m disgusted about that whole scene…. I actually feel sick just talking about it but I’m curious to see if others feel the same way. Why in hell, if a guy is already down and can’t move because of the electric shock he had in him, would they need to put their leg on his neck? This whole thing makes my blood boil.

You have to seriously wonder. The man has come off a long-haul flight, been stuck in immigration for hours, no one attempts to help him, he can’t speak English, he’s probably dehydrated and jet-lagged, no one assisted his mother in finding him who had come to the airport to pick him up - they actually told her that he wasn’t there. So she left, drove half way to the interior before getting a phone call saying he was there only to arrive and find him dead.

And then do you know what they did? They offered to put her up in fucking half-way house. How’s that for classy. Oh, sorry your son’s dead, can we put you up in a half-way house for the evening?

In truth, this is a massive failure on the part of the airport, immigration, and the police. The people watching it unfold handled the situation better. At least at that point he was alive.

I meant to say that before, about the airport.. Why was he in immigration for 8 hours? and at the bagage area for another 6, was it? or am I getting my lines crossed? At any rate, why did they not help them find each other?

Also, I don’t know if anyone noticed this but on the video, the guy that checked his pulse; he got up after he realized the guy had no pulse. He had no emotion and no one seemed distraught.. like wtf is that?

Me too..

Although some people are not allowed to comment on this … the one guy they talked to about tasering was not allowed to comment….

I wonder if there were other camera’s and different angle’s. The one assholes leg was gauged in this guys neck, it gave me chills.. Hello, the guy is out cold with how many jolts through his body; they even said on the news ‘even after he stopped breathing, he knee was still on his neck’. hhmmmmmm do you think the knee maybe stopped the breathing? hmmmmmmmmmm

It IS a tough situation, although in all fairness, being a police officer is a thankless position, no matter what. If there was property damage (above what was created) it was going to their fault. If they used pepper spray, it was going to be their fault for collateral injuries. If they took too long, it would be their fault for hindering airport traffic.

I agree with Matt, they did appear to act too quickly, but if you could read everything going through an officer’s head in a situation like this it would be tough to judge.

I appreciate the manner you approach this, Matt. You point out an opportunity while not individually chastising the police on scene. Thank you for your view point.

Thanks for posting this… I was browsing CBC.ca, but couldn’t seem to find the video link there.

I wonder how many people need to die before police forces worldwide will recognize them as a lethal weapon.

Ya, they’ll PR this to death in an attempt to downplay it.

Does no one see that he grabs something just before he is tasered? It appears to me that he grabbed something and the way he lifts his right arm suggests to me that he wants to use it violently. Approximatley 6:47 into the video. If the RCMP officers observed a threat, which I believe they did, they immobilized it. I am not commenting on the subsequent shots with the taser, but the first one does, to me, seem warranted

Quoting Tanya:

Rebecca that shock killed a man possibly… and 280 others across North America last year..

Who said the taser was harmless? The person that made the ‘gadget’? my god.

Yeah, I was being facetious hence even quoting the “teehee”

Also it was reported that it took 8-12 minutes for paramedics to get there even though airport medics were only 2 mins away and never called… RCMP are trained in CPR too, aren’t they?

For some reason the taser has some internal reputation of being safe, but it appears to be anything but that. The marketing for them says they are non-lethal, but obviously there have been many fatalities associated with it.

As a result, I think the police have the potential to overuse it since they think it’s relatively harmless. There have been several cases of severe abuse, one of which was at UCLA last year, where a student was tased up to four times I believe.

My SO spent a number of years doing forensic psychiatry assessment. This case is pretty typical of how an event (a “code white” or a “take down” or “arrest”) can go bad.

I’m also from Kingston ON, which (IIRC) is Canada’s biggest ‘Prison Town’. I’ve seen SO MANY news reports of Autopsies for “take downs” and “cell extractions” in my 30 years living there.

It is pretty clear in retrospect that as a previous Poster mentioned, this man has extremely fatigued, in a foreign country where noone spoke his language [culture shock], dehydrated, and afraid.

I’d suggest that he was in what is called an Excited Delirium (a form of ‘psychosis’). Dehydration and stress and fatigue and extreme anxiety are KNOWN to do this. :( This happens to little old people or very sick people in the hospitals, for example, all the time.

He seemed to become calm. Then they sent in four Uniformed, Big Males with Weapons. Big mistake. This appears to have escalated things. (They should have first figured out his language and then sent in a small un-uniformed woman to talk to him in calm tones.)

Cops, again and again, prove that they need mental health training. *sigh*

Even wonky blood sugar (diabetes; hypoglycemia) can make “Nice People” become Violent, Aggresssive and Combative.

I keep telling the Good Doctor here that we need to patent a “Haldol Tranquilizer Gun” or a “Net Gun.” ;)

History always presents the same lessons again and again until we figure it out.

Quoting emma_chase:

My SO spent a number of years doing forensic psychiatry assessment. This case is pretty typical of how an event (a “code white” or a “take down” or “arrest”) can go bad.

I’m also from Kingston ON, which (IIRC) is Canada’s biggest ‘Prison Town’. I’ve seen SO MANY news reports of Autopsies for “take downs” and “cell extractions” in my 30 years living there.

It is pretty clear in retrospect that as a previous Poster mentioned, this man has extremely fatigued, in a foreign country where noone spoke his language [culture shock], dehydrated, and afraid.

I’d suggest that he was in what is called an Excited Delirium (a form of ‘psychosis’). Dehydration and stress and fatigue and extreme anxiety are KNOWN to do this. :( This happens to little old people or very sick people in the hospitals, for example, all the time.

He seemed to become calm. Then they sent in four Uniformed, Big Males with Weapons. Big mistake. This appears to have escalated things. (They should have first figured out his language and then sent in a small un-uniformed woman to talk to him in calm tones.)

Cops, again and again, prove that they need mental health training. *sigh*

Even wonky blood sugar (diabetes; hypoglycemia) can make “Nice People” become Violent, Aggresssive and Combative.

I keep telling the Good Doctor here that we need to patent a “Haldol Tranquilizer Gun” or a “Net Gun.” ;)

History always presents the same lessons again and again until we figure it out.

I think trying to find one who could first truly identify the language, (you had one woman suggesting he was Italian, and then it went to Russian). The longer the situation would have went, unfortunately, you can’t predict what the outcome would have been to have let that much time elapse.
I am in no way justifying tasering a man several times, but as the investigation will proceed, we need to find out what happened out side of that glass room, who was told what and how the situation was portrayed to the officers approaching the situation.

I don’t think that whoever received the call for help is stupid nor would I suggest he did anytihng wrong; I think he did sent the appropriate amount of men in there. Looking at this article from the national post :
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=e386fc77-e1c9-4262-95ce-6b2fc77dd27d

I agree with the Professor. They took the easy root as opposed to using the weapons they had which would have been strength. However, imagine you were the 4 officers, unable to communicate to this man. Reports show they were asking him to put his hands on the counter. As a result of his resistence (due to the language barrier) they shot him. I think we need to consider the mentality of the officers before calling them power hungry assholes. (again I’m not saying what they did was right, but I don’t know if I can argue that they were 100% wrong in the first moments of the encounter-continuing to shoot him is a whole other ball game).

Quoting Matthew Good:

Oh, don’t get me wrong. Given the video, they should be charged with manslaughter at the very least.

Are you for real? Matt, while you may be trained as a musician, I’d wager that you are not trained as a peace officer. That said, I’d imagine the men in the video have a better grasp of the procedures in place for such an incident than yourself.

It’s terribly easy to sit in the comfort of your own home watching a video over and over again KNOWING the outcome of the situation. Had the circumstances been different– the suspect in question had the intent of hurting or killing a police officer, civilian, or worse– we likely wouldn’t be having this discussion. Unfortunately, when an irate individual in an AIRPORT doesn’t readily respond to officers directions, they were forced to act quickly in the most effective manner they deemed possible AT THE TIME.

Thankless career indeed.

However, Waffles08, I think this situation calls for some sort of hypothetical, since many police situations are first and foremost, hypothetical.
Taking into account that this man was irrational, scared and so on, he could have taken a blow to one of the cops–in this case, wouldn’t you think the outcome would have been “worse,” with the same result.
(By this I mean the cops would have probably beat the shit out of him and still used the taser, etc).

I’m also wondering, keeping in light of Matt’s original train of thought, (in regards post 9/11), taking our knowledge of the man aside, what if he had turned out to be a “terrorist” (even though I hate that word, its almost become comical to me now), HOWEVER, what if he was in fact a terrorist. Would we have the same reaction?

Keeping the post 9/11 mentality in mind, can you truly say that the way the RCMP handled the situation in the FIRST moments of the incident were wrong? You need authority. You need to show your superiority and dominance over the situation, hence the united front approach to the man. Like I have said before you need to consider what the RCMP were told prior to arriving on scene. Add a guy that’s sweating, throwing shit, and creating a blockade of chairs who cant speak a word of English to the mix, and you have yourself a “think on the spot hypothetical situation.”

What would you have done? Stood there calmly and let him jump at you and let the situation get worse ? (again take into account that you need to be hypothetical and pretend you don’t know the outcome).

Quoting mtw:

Quoting waffles08:

Give me a fricking break about the “knowing the outcome of the situation” straw man argument.

I guess what I’m insinuating is that had this event occured without the death of the individual, all of you “Crusaders of Morality” would never had heard about it. The truth is, tasers are used hundreds of times every day, largely without incident.
Much like the work of police on a daily basis, tasers aren’t scrutinized unless something goes wrong…

Get it?

I think you’re totally right. This wasn’t their first day on the job nor was it their first time handling a taser gun. I think they did follow the protocol in regards to HOW they handled the situation. I think they shot too many times, however, they did what was expected when a situation of that stature is occuring. They shot, held him down, held his neck down to prevent damage (though i can agree more damage was done with the force of the knee), etc. Again, not sticking up for them however I am able to see the other side of the coin.

Quoting veronica97:

this story saddens me, he just just a construction worker in Poland who wanted to come here to live a new life with his mother.

The RCMP went overboard with this situation and i feel it could have been handled a hell of a lot differently than tasering him. He wasn’t even concealing a weapon of any sort or under the influence of anything.

Also, why the hell did it take the ambulance 12 minutes to arrive on the scene when he slipped into unconciousness?

I was just looking at the time-lime: 1:21 a.m. — Vancouver International Airport calls the RCMP, reporting a 50-year-old male is throwing suitcases and appears to be intoxicated;
1:26 — The passenger has now thrown a chair through a window;
1:27 — Two security guards show up. One minute later, the RCMP arrives;
1:30 - A male has been tasered and is unconscious but breathing. Ambulance is called;
1:31 — Security guards help restrain the man, who is now described as a suspect;
1:32 — The log reports that Dziekanski has lost consciousness.
1:36 - A Code 3 is issued to paramedics, indicating someone is unconscious.
1:44 - Paramedics arrive, 12 minutes after Dziekanski, 40, first slipped into unconsciousness.

Someone, in their right frame of mind could have simply taken him to immigration to find an interpretor to find out what the problem was. the mother was waiting 10 hours for him and no one even assisted her in helping him. She also worked her ass off, two jobs for 7 years to get her son immigrated here.

Hopefully, the civil suit they’re talking about goes through against the RCMP and also Citizenship and Immigration.

On top of it all this is the second Taser victim since the first one was from Montreal. That was a different incident, he was driving his vehicle erratically into other vehicles. But, still i don’t think they need to use a taser especially at 50,000 volts which was used for the same case with the Polish man.

So far there’s been 17 cases with tasers since 2003. that’s pretty brutal if you ask me.

What about actual guns? 17 isnt a perfect number but this isn’t a perfect world. If everything was fullproof we wouldn’t have the need to continually upgrade our technology, and in this case, police weapons.

Stranger that it happened in Canada…

Quoting jenna1:

taking our knowledge of the man aside, what if he had turned out to be a “terrorist” (even though I hate that word, its almost become comical to me now), HOWEVER, what if he was in fact a terrorist. Would we have the same reaction?

Hahah. You got me there. Your suggestion that one should participate in this FoxNews-style thought experiment signals a sort of post-911 Godwin’s law for the end of my participation in this thread.

PS. Let me know when loitering around YVR’s luggage conveyance for 10 hours makes it onto an episode of 24.

This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.

Do not fight the GOD creatures. You are not a citizen, you are a Civilian. When was it that we started talking in Military terms about the population?

This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.
This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.
This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.
This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.
This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.
This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.
This is what a POLICE STATE looks like.

I was sick to my stomach watching this. He was clearly distraught, which is clearly understandable after a 15 hour flight (his first time flying) and 10 hour stay in the airport. When at the airport he was receiving no help, he didn’t speak any english and was not getting any help to reunite him with his mother. I would be a little uneasy too.

When confront by the police he raised his hands as if to say “ok, ok!” and yet within 20 seconds, 4 large officers had to taser him twice and then all 4 of them pin him to the ground with all their weight. It was absolutely appalling to watch. Is it lack of training or lack of conscience? Regardless what they did was criminal and unjustified.

The officer addressing the press kept referring to the tape as “one small piece of evidence”. How is this small? It’s the entire encounter on tape, there is no background or history of violence that the police had access to before confronting him, they were advised several times he didn’t speak english. What else is there to consider? I am very curious to hear all these “other factors” that are at play here, they killed the man in just over 2 mins, and they did it on tape…

Fucking disgusting.

Tasers are nasty little weapons. If used on a person in perfect health, they’ll do what they are supposed to do. But how many of us are in “perfect” health? Any heart condition, no matter how minor, will change the effectiveness of the weapon from severe to nearly lethal. Sometimes, it’s lethal.

I used to work as a Security Guard in downtown Toronto. No weapons of any kind…we were trained to talk to people and calm them down. Once you can get someone talking, you can find out why they’re doing what they’re doing, and help them to stop.

I’m not going to judge the officers…clearly, none of us were there and we can’t really say how we’d react in a situation. Unfortunately, a man is dead and that cannot be changed.

It’s easy to comment and say that what the police did was wrong unless you were there to hear and see what actually happened.

Whatever happened to taking responsibility for yourself? If this man couldn’t speak a word of english then why did get into a situation where he’d have to wait alone, unassisted at the airport? Maybe talking to the airline before hand and arranging some help would be useful. Saying, “Look, I’m not familiar with the area, the language etc. Do you think someone could help me out when I arrive?”

If he had a mental illness and was not stable because he didn’t have access to medication…then why not say something to someone before flying? Because the airline would think he was a threat?? Maybe he shouldn’t have been flying if he wasn’t well!!

How do you think the police or airport would react if ANYONE started freaking out like that in the airport?
I mean seriously, when I fly, I’m so nervous not to attract suspicion that I just do whatever they ask in security…be polite, thank them and be on my way.

I would be shocked to see that going on in an airport. I would be frightened even more if I had my kids with me and some guy was freaking out like that….WOULDN’T YOU GUYS?? It’s horrible that this man died. At the same time, I don’t honestly believe that the police thought, “Let’s kill this fucker!” while they tasered him.

All I’m saying is, it’s time people look at their own actions and take responsibility for them.

I wonder what kind of uproar this would have caused if a Canadian had been treated like this in Poland for instance and ultimately killed….

After hearing about the Robert Dziekanski story as well as two others deaths in Quebec only in the last month after the use of Taser Guns, I’ve decided to start a petition so that the Ministers of Public Safety from each province as well as the federal Minister, Stockwell Day, reconsider the use of this Weapon and either better regulate it just as guns are or ban it altogether.

Sign The Petition http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/tasergun

regardless of anything anyone has to say on the matter he did not have to die…he had no weapon, since when cant 4 cops overtake 1 man?

it is a shame…senseless…he needed help…lots of ppl dropped the ball on this one…police procedure correct or not, at worst he should be in a hospital bed right now with him mom beside him.

I can’t understand why CPR was not given to this man once they knew he was not breathing, WTF??
I know cops have the training so why wasn’t anything done?

Quoting Nameless:

regardless of anything anyone has to say on the matter he did not have to die…he had no weapon, since when cant 4 cops overtake 1 man?

Once pre-conceived notions are wiped from ones eyes before viewing. The undeniable fact that he does arm himself with a weapon will become evident.

Quoting Dale McShannock:

Are there instances of police brutality, of excessive use of force? Yes, of course. This was not one of them.

This was not one of them? Why in the world did four RCMP officers forced to use a weapon to control a man that was doing no harm to them? He was violently breaking things, but he never attacked anyone…never had the time did he?

As far as “only” a few instances of death, the Taser Gun is supposed to CONTROL a suspect, not badly hurt or kill him. If it does, then it’s not doing its job and it should therefore either be better regulated (such as situations of use and/or power) or forbidden…

I’m sure you’d change your mind if someone around you was causing trouble and died, accidentally I agree, because of this weapon. But if it leads to death sometimes, it shouldn’t be used…

Condoning this situation is like saying they should have shot him…he may have died but at least they would have been able to control him…

What gets me is… the security guys weren’t threatened at all. You see them looking around with their eyes off of the suspect when he is right infront of them. But the RCMP felt the need to use that kind of force? It’s ridiculous. Was there no interpretor on hand? You hear them keep mentioning that he only speaks Russian… was there nobody else in the airport able to interpret? Not even an employee of a European airline? I am confident the situation could have been de-escalated without any use of force at all.

Taken from the RCMP website (www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca):

MISSION - The RCMP is Canada’s national police service. Proud of our traditions and confident in meeting future challenges, we commit to preserve the peace, uphold the law and provide quality service in partnership with our communities.

VISION - We will:

* be a progressive, proactive and innovative organization
* provide the highest quality service through dynamic leadership, education and technology in partnership with the diverse communities we serve
* be accountable and efficient through shared decision-making
* ensure a healthy work environment that encourages team building, open communication and mutual respect
* promote safe communities
* demonstrate leadership in the pursuit of excellence

CORE VALUES OF THE RCMP - Recognizing the dedication of all employees, we will create and maintain an environment of individual safety, well-being and development. We are guided by:

* integrity
* honesty
* professionalism
* compassion
* respect
* accountability

COMMITMENT TO OUR COMMUNITIES - The employees of the RCMP are committed to our communities through:

* unbiased and respectful treatment of all people
* accountability
* mutual problem solving
* cultural sensitivity
* enhancement of public safety
* partnerships and consultation
* open and honest communication
* effective and efficient use of resources
* quality and time service

Where in any of this video did they display an unbiased and respectful treatment, cultural sensitivity, mutual problem solving, open and honest communication, effective and efficient use of resources, quality and time service?

In fact, I think their reaction to Mr. Dziekanski goes against everything they state in their mission, vision and core values.

Anyone that believes otherwise, doesn’t understand the intent of our national police force and instead relies too much on “what if” scenarios and american news stations.

There is nothing in the video that the RCMP should be proud of. Nor we, as Canadians who tend to romanticize our views of the red serge.

Shoot first, ask questions later. Hey, it’s standard operating procedure right?

The issue may be attitutude. Law enforcement professionals possibly consider the Taser, not as a weapon that has the ability to take someone’s life (In Canada alone there have been 18 reported fatalities as a result of the use of a Taser in the past 5 years) , but as a tool to assist them with thier job functions.

Quoting andkatewaslike:

Was this more of a preventative takedown? What if they waited and he attacked someone?

That’s not the point really…not mine anyway.

I agree they had to control the man. But not that way.

Quoting Eric-Head:

I think that everyone commenting that the RCMP overreacted have never had training in avoiding altercations; the officers perceived a threat, but because of the angle of the camera, we can’t see everything they can, they subdued the man, and part of that is ensuring that he can’t get up; this involved one officer forcing his head down with his knee. I support thr RCMP in ensuring that this man was not given the capacity to hurt one of them, as he did pick up a weapon in my opinion. This man clearly showed an affinity for violence, shown in his actions with the computer and chair going through a window. Would you rather the RCMP tried to reason with the man who was clearly beyond, and have a chance of him hurting more people. I can’t be certain, but I have an inclination that no RCMP goes into a situation looking to kill someone with thier taser, and claiming that they had a vendeta against this man is ludacris.

I think there are many things to be looked at. The first is why this man was in a “secure” area, yet no one was there? And why was he able to wander in and out of it….how is it “secure” if there are no security personnel or cameras monitoring what’s happening inside the area?

This should’ve never escalated as it did, with the man left so long in the state he was in. And I think that the first course of action for police/security would be to try and “diffuse” the situation and calm the man down. It doesn’t appear to me that that happened - of course, someone in an exhausted, confused, disoriented state is going to react aggressively to being ignored for so long and then to be surrounded by several police officers. I just think the whole “approach” to this was wrong from the beginning. And our airport security and the police should be better equipped to handle people who are in this state, without the use of excessive force as a first option. For a man who spent several hours of obvious frustration getting into this state of mind, it was mere minutes before he was dead. I think that better attempts to communicate with him and ensure him that he would be “helped” might’ve seen a different ending.

So, yes, I do wish the police had acted differently and had tried to calm the man down first. I would expect nothing less. I do understand that, with the recent killing of officers in the headlines, there is a lot of anxiety and nervousness and police should expect the unexpected. But I’m quite sure that they will encounter people in a similar state on a regular basis - I think the training is (or should be) there to use force as a last resort, but to try other methods first. They had the man seriously outnumbered and I think they should’ve been able to restrain him without killing him. I’m getting very repetitive here, because I believe that this could’ve been prevented with a few things in place (mostly at the airport level). I think the airport failed this man, as an international traveller who was unable to communicate or get assistance. And I think police failed him, as they reacted to him as a “threat” before they did as “a person”.

There are witness accounts on YouTube, and I urge you to play them all in order to formulate an opinion on things. From what I’ve heard, this man was let down bigtime.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=05vuY-kqp9o&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_3Ggpme5nUA

Quoting Prosis:

Quoting Dale McShannock:

Are there instances of police brutality, of excessive use of force? Yes, of course. This was not one of them.

This was not one of them? Why in the world did four RCMP officers forced to use a weapon to control a man that was doing no harm to them? He was violently breaking things, but he never attacked anyone…never had the time did he?

As far as “only” a few instances of death, the Taser Gun is supposed to CONTROL a suspect, not badly hurt or kill him. If it does, then it’s not doing its job and it should therefore either be better regulated (such as situations of use and/or power) or forbidden…

I’m sure you’d change your mind if someone around you was causing trouble and died, accidentally I agree, because of this weapon. But if it leads to death sometimes, it shouldn’t be used…

Condoning this situation is like saying they should have shot him…he may have died but at least they would have been able to control him…

You would rather that he did have the time to attack them then? Is it there job to wait for people to become agressive? Would you rather he took a swing at one of the cops, possibly injuring him? Contrary to what some people think, it is not the job of the RCMP to actually get hurt, nor should they. They put themselves in harms way, they do not need to do so further.

And i’m sure you’d change your mind if the cops didn’t have such a weapon, and somone you knew was killed because of it. I will repeat, for the amount that tasers are used, the percentage of people that react poorly to them - irregular heart beats, ect - is infentesmal. They have brought peaceful resolution to literally hundreds of thousands of situations. What is an acceptlible alternative then? If they had pulled out their batons and brought him down, they probably would have been brought up on brutality charges by a public that has no idea what the hell goes on in situations like these.

As for you analogy about shooting him, its wrong and does not work in this situation. They did not shoot him, they reacted with appropriate force as they have been trained to do.

Tania: Contrary to your blanket opinion about not understanding what the police force is intended to, i think it is you who is a little confused. This was not an open forum comittee with members of the polish comunity, this was not a roundhall discussion on cultural sensitivity. This was the police reacting as they are trained to a situation. If someone becomes violent, it does not matter what country they come from - the police are trained to respond.

Now, i don’t care if the man picked up a stapler. It didn’t look like a stapler to me, but there is no way to tell one way or the other. It doesn’t matter what it was. It was a weapon. In the video you cannot see everything that the police can, but by the time they first taser him he raises his hands and hes holding something. Thats a weapon. You don’t go around brandishing a weapon at the police, i don’t care if you’re a foreign national or not. Because if you change the training for every different situation then you have hesitation, and hesitation might and could result in a dead police officer.

And the police did not look hesitant to the situation, i’m not sure how you could get that from the video. They were dealing with the man peacefully at the beginning. They were bunched together talking to him just inside the doors there, but they did not fan out to surround him until he threw up his arms and walked away. Then they were talking to him, and we couldn’t see what he grabbed in the video, but you can tell when, because they police reacted immediately. A taser was fired, and the man already had in his hand whatever it was that he picked up.

Eight minutes into the video the recorder of the video says that the man is still struggling, after being tasered twice or three times, with four cops on him - despite the knee to the neck. And as for the knee, i have seen an RCMP use a baton to bring a man down, then the knee planted on the neck until another officer could cuff the man. It is standard procedure.

If the man had stayed calm and rational, to some degree, this would not have happened. The police were talking to him, he did something, they reacted. It was not a matter of shoot first ask questions later, you can see that much from the fucking video. They probably could have kept him standing there until some sort of translator showed up, but he went for a weapon and they took him down.

And police for years have been trying to wrestle suspects to the ground, but thats partly hollywood fiction that that sort of thing always works out. There have been instances of deaths, or cops having their guns stolen and turned on them. Pulling a big man like that down, especially in his agitated state, would have been no easy feat. And then, if for whatever reason he had died, it would have been police brutality.

They cannot win, because most people simply don’t know what they are talking about.

Quoting Dale McShannock:

You would rather that he did have the time to attack them then? Is it there job to wait for people to become agressive? Would you rather he took a swing at one of the cops, possibly injuring him? Contrary to what some people think, it is not the job of the RCMP to actually get hurt, nor should they. They put themselves in harms way, they do not need to do so further.

Never ever said that, I would appreciate it if you would not put words in my mouth. What I meant was that they weren’t attacked. Then why did they need to use a weapon (A WEAPON) to control him. They were four officers and he was unarmed.

Quoting Dale McShannock:

And i’m sure you’d change your mind if the cops didn’t have such a weapon, and somone you knew was killed because of it. I will repeat, for the amount that tasers are used, the percentage of people that react poorly to them - irregular heart beats, ect - is infentesmal. They have brought peaceful resolution to literally hundreds of thousands of situations. What is an acceptlible alternative then? If they had pulled out their batons and brought him down, they probably would have been brought up on brutality charges by a public that has no idea what the hell goes on in situations like these.

No I wouldn’t change my mind. What if you were blowing a fuse but nonviolent to people, then I guess it would be ok to bring you down with a taser. And if you died after, it would be OK right? Because let me remind you that this man was not armed and did not harm anyone. And so no one was killed because of them. Furthermore, I’m not saying that we should absolutely ban them. I’m saying that they should be reconsidered and further studied. If they can’t guarantee that no one could die from the use of these weapons, then they should not be used.

Quoting Dale McShannock:

As for you analogy about shooting him, its wrong and does not work in this situation. They did not shoot him, they reacted with appropriate force as they have been trained to do.

Again I’ve never ever said that THEY might as well have shot him, I said that condoning a weapon that can be deadly is as safe as using a gun to shoot someone down “safely”. You know like policemen who shoot people in the leg for example. It’s the same thing.

Finally, I want to add that, even if we cannot see what the police could see, if he didn’t have a proper weapon, the tasers shouldn’t have been used. And again, if tasers can kill, then tasers should not be used to control people.