The Son And Heir Of Nothing In Particular
For those of you that don’t know, this is what an SKS looks like…
The SKS fires 7.62mm rounds, the standard round size for most combat weapons – the M16, AK-47, etc. It’s magazine has a 10 round integral box capacity. Firearm enthusiasts in the United States passionately argue that the SKS is not an ‘assault rifle’, as assault rifles have ‘selective fire’, meaning that they can be set to fully automatic or semi-automatic. The SKS, without being modified, is a semi-automatic weapon at the point of sale in the US.
Nevertheless, it was an SKS that 19-year-old Robert Hawkins from Bellevue, Nebraska, used to gun down eight innocent people in an Omaha shopping mall before taking his own life.
As is commonly the case, those who knew Hawkins claim that he was a quiet boy, one that loved animals, but one that was not without his problems. He was solitary, drank, and suffered bouts of depression. Prior to the shooting he had lost his job at McDonalds, broke up with his girlfriend, and was living with a friend’s family…
“His friend’s mother, Debora Maruca Kovac, told the Associated Press news agency that when he first came to live with them, “he was introverted, a troubled young man who was like a lost pound puppy that nobody wanted”.
She said he phoned her about 1300 on Wednesday, telling her that he had left a note for her in his bedroom. She tried to get him to explain.
“He said, ‘It’s too late’,” and then hung up, she told CNN.
In the note, she said, Hawkins had written that “he was sorry for everything, that he didn’t want to be a burden to anybody, he loved his family, he loved all of his friends”.
The note went on to say he wanted to be famous, she said.”
I am, by no means, excusing the actions of Robert Hawkins. What he did was reprehensible. In the end he took his own life, but not before robbing eight others of theirs, robbing eight families of loved ones, and forever shattering the lives of those wounded in the shooting, those who witnessed it, and everyone besides that it will impact. But the question has to be asked – what possesses a young man to go on a suicidal shooting rampage in hopes of securing fame, even if cloaked in infamy? In fact, what possesses any young person to go on a shooting rampage as a way to attain some sort of finality? Is it because they were shit on? Is it because they felt that no one cared? Was it because, at a crucial moment in their development, one, or more, people failed them when they shouldn’t have?
There are, of course, the standard excuses that are relied upon so that the actual roots of the problems that plague everything from inner cities to troubled youths in Middle America don’t have to be faced – video games, music, film, and so forth. But those are simply cop-outs, conveniences that are used to justify that which would actually take real effort to confront. While we swim in the perception of our own societal perfection, the fact that it is rotting away from beneath us remains not merely overlooked, but willfully ignored.
Youth today live in a world of fear, a world of lies, a world of engineered wars, false hopes, false beliefs, and view those that promote such nonsense for what they are – full of shit. What else, given that reality, is there to breed but apathy, exhaustion, and desperation? Contentment is something purchased, that is the reality that young people today have been bombarded with, and to find oneself in the position, even as a teenager, of believing that failure is more probable that success is something so utterly damaging that it’s no wonder that the suicide rate is what it is, that kids are being put on medication to combat depression on an unprecedented scale, and that acts of senseless violence have become more common.
It is impossible to tell a child that the future is theirs to shape when they are given a block of stone and no chisel. Even worse, no idea of even how to sculpt.
Those steeped in religion will claim that the problem lies in a lack of religion. Those steeped in the ideological will claim that the problem lies in a lack of tradition. But neither has much to offer besides one-sided placebos in a world that grows more diverse and interconnected by the second.
Ultimately, and though it might be a bitter pill to swallow because it’s easier to allow anger to rule our feelings in such instances, one has to ask what it would have taken to keep that rifle out of that boy’s hands? And by that I am not suggesting that gun regulation is my primary point, though it is certainly one that must not be discounted. Simply that if he were given a chisel and some direction, eight people might still be alive.
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December 6th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
I’m sure people have mentioned this before when speaking of the increase in teen shooting sprees, but it reminds me of a portion of Malcolm Gladwell’s book Tipping Point, where there was an epidemic of teen suicides.
To paraphrase; a famous teen (the Prince) hung himself, with this “new” idea in their head, a few more followed suit. Then a few more. Then a lot more. Makes me wonder about about the increase in murder/suicide sprees.
December 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
People have to start caring about other people. It seems everyone these days lives in their own little world, that it seems so foreign to interact with people in a human way. There are so many things that wrap us all into a little bubble, from our cellphones, blackberries, ipods etc…, that it seems no one is breaking out of that bubble for a moment to see whats happening around them. People have to start caring about other people, a simple hello, or even a two second conversation about our favorite topic in this country, weather, can make a person feel like they exist. Technology is great, i have a cell and an mp3 player myself, but we cannot forget our humanity.
December 6th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
I lost a very close friend in 1995. We went to college together. Applied to the same workplace after completing school. Both got hired, commuted together. Shared our lives and our dreams.
My friend was 26 yrs old and had been married for 11 months when she and her husband separated. She called him at work to tell him she was going back to their marital home with a girlfriend to pick up some clothes. He raced home from work, and had a couple beers. When she and her friend showed up an argument ensued. He went into the house, loaded a shotgun and came back outside. He stated: “If I can’t have you, then nobody’s going to have you”. Her friend attempted to wrestle the shot gun out of his hands. She ran, he chased her. Shot his wife 3 times, then turned the gun on himself. He died too. I can’t even begin to tell you in words how horrifying it is to receive a phone call to give you that kind of news.
I knew him very well. Never in a million years would I have ever thought he would be capable of such a thing. Alayne never would have gone back to that house for a moment if she thought her safety would be in jeopardy. For whatever reason, he just snapped. I HATE guns. Would gun regulation have saved her? Nope. Does there need to be gun regulation? You bet your ass. Interesting program on the Fifth Estate last night about gun dealerships in the US….did anyone see it?
December 6th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Dammit Matt, why’d you say what I wanted to say, and so eloquently?
If more would listen to the logic you just expressed this won’t repeat.
I’m willing to bet, since common sense and the ability to root cause a problem doesn’t exist in those with the power to change things, they will simply use this as an excuse to ramp up monitoring of citizens and beef up security so we have metal detectors in public places. Of course this will all be done in the name of security for the general public.
Are those commercials about bulleying still on TV? Those were very well done, showing adults “how would you feel” by examples students face in grade school, but happening at the office.
We need more of that.
More finding out why bullies bully and how to change that!
It seems the schools of hard knocks are not so easy for kids to survive these days. Could be the media, movies, games, change in family structure with both parents working, etc… But something has to change to help these kids get through life. Many have lived through worse and survived, what’s their secret?
I hope when I have children that I can teach them how not only to survive, but how to see the positive in the world (believe it or not, there exists positive things, it just doesn’t sell ads) and make the best of things.
December 6th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
I think that this says it all.
A Child Learns what a Child Lives
If a child lives with criticism,
he learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility,
he learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule,
he learns to be shy.
If a child lives with shame,
he learns to feel guilty.
If a child lives with tolerance,
he learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement,
he learns confidence.
If a child lives with praise,
he learns to appreciate.
If a child lives with fairness,
he learns justice.
If a child lives with security,
he learns to have faith.
If a child lives with approval,
he learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance, and friendship,
he learns to find love in the world.
-Author unknown
December 6th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Has anyone here ever noticed how suicide rates in rich first world countries far exceed those in poor third world countries? I personally think it is because nihilism and materialism thrive in societies which rest upon a moral vacuum.
December 6th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
I think that the most disturbing part of this whole scenario is that he said “I want to be famous”.
Not to try and downplay the severity of the fact that he took eight innocent lives, but that was the part that stood out the most for me: that he thought by doing so he would attain some sort of infamy, be remembered for doing it.
What kind of world do we live in that someone would want to be famous for something like that? What is it about these past years that seem to have warped so many youth? These people commiting these atrocious crimes are only a few years younger than I (I’m 20), so what is so different about their perception of reality? I couldn’t say. I can only say that it terrifies me to the extent that I am almost afraid to have children one day.
I’m not blaming the media or the internet but -just a thought- maybe the reason that people feel that they can achieve “fame” through these acts is because we live in a society that feeds on fear? Because, the instant something like that happens, the whole world is made aware? A mass murderer will get ten times the coverage that a food drive or a fundraiser for aids ever would. With cell phones and laptops and blackberries we live in a world that can communicate so much so quickly that instant fame is really attainable, even if you’re just a flash in the pan you can still stand out, if even for a moment.
My question is… what is morphing people’s minds that it’s better to be famous for doing something terrible than something good? What has society become that we glorify these people and put them up on pedestals by giving them so much attention? What kind of messages are we sending our children, the people who are ïnheriting everything we have created? What kind of legacy are we leaving?
It terrifies me, the people we are raising our children to be.
December 6th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Sports broadcasters will not broadcast images of fools who run onto the field so, as explained, the idiot does not get his/her 15 minutes of fame.
Yet within hours of somebody gunning down 8 people in a mall I know his name and I’ve seen his picture online and on my TV. This guy said he wanted to be famous. He was granted his wish.
Sure, we don’t believe him to be more than a deeply troubled soul who might have missed a single instant from somebody or something that would have prevented what happened.
But to the troubled souls waiting in line. This guy is famous. The whole media world is shining a spotlight on him and politically correctness mandates that analysts pity him as a poor poor boy who might have been saved but nobody saw it or cared about it.
Now that last paragraph isn’t me being unsimpathetic. I’m just trying to point out why it’s bound to happen again, and again.
December 6th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
It is long overdue for the US to impose strict gun control laws and severe punishement for those caught in contraction with those laws. Way too many of these shootings are occuring and it is infact, terryfing. I know that gun control laws will not stop certain incidents from happening but it surely oughta do something rather than nothing.
December 6th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
[quote comment="35055"]Has anyone here ever noticed how suicide rates in rich first world countries far exceed those in poor third world countries? I personally think it is because nihilism and materialism thrive in societies which rest upon a moral vacuum.[/quote]
It would not make sense to commit suicude when you live in an environment of suvival of the fittest and family dying around you. Here you have a purpose. Lonliness is a powerful emotion and at the route of many suicides. I don’t think that because morals are not preached, that they do not exist. Family order does give a child a place and purpose. We are failing in family connectiveness. This is where the child experiences different roles, learns acceptance and tolerance, learns to help and care for others and just learns life skills in general. Each role in the family has become distorted, unknown, or unattainable and is the crumbling foundation of society in our part of the world. Spinning faster and faster towards 2012 almost makes sense. Here’s to hope.
December 6th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Your opinion is shared by many but rarely so perfectly expressed. We live in a generation of self, where the individual is the only one that matters. Nothing can truly explain suicide or acts of random violence like this one, people can blame whatever they want, it’s never going to be enough. I’ve decided to no longer attempt to analyse such things, and just deal with the fact that they have somehow become a reality to the general population.
ps: kudos for the smith’s reference.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
…And yet again we are subjected to the media’s hyper-sensationalized portrayal of yet another seemingly avoidable tragedy. Every news media outlet is quick to bombard us with headlines that serve to evoke fear (Could this happen to you?) and spread rumors about the probable intent of the perpetrator.
This massacre will provoke debate regarding gun control laws, the availability of firearms in the United States, and gun violence involving youths. Much discussion will also center on the nature of youth cliques, subcultures and bullying, as well as the role of violent movies and video games in American society. This shooting will also result in an increased emphasis on public security, and a moral panic aimed at social pariahs, the gun culture, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, violent films and music, teenage internet use,and violent video games…sound familiar? Can anyone say Columbine?
It is our responsibility to take a proactive rather than reactive approach to these rampages. This is easier said than done as it is much more convenient to sit idly twiddling our thumbs and hope that someone else will do something. We need to find a way to arm our youth with knowledge, confidence, direction, and a sense of self and social responsibility.
As George Santayana said: “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
sometimes i wish i could speak aloud like you write, Matt.
Your words resonate louder than anything I’ve heard in a long time. A bitter pill to swallow is right but just like all the charities bombarding you at Christmastime, with good intentions, you want to help, but you don’t know where to start…
Actually, that reminds me: myself and a few people from my work were fund raising in the metro (subway) for the Maison Moisson charity today, which provides Christmas baskets for those less fortunate in Montreal, and I was extremely surprised at the type of donors that approached … A lot of wealthy looking people walked on, refusing to make eye contact, and the majority of donors looked like just landed immigrants, or people not very well off and young kids…
it was impressive..
December 6th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Two things. One: People covet people and their lifestyles. We watch them on tv, read about them in trash magazines, newspapers, books, and movies. Fame and things to accompany it are held to such high reguard in our democratic, consumer based reality.
This poor boy, like so many before and regretfully those that will follow, have nothing to look forward to in their lives. They see the world for what it is and like many of us, think it’s a shame. Except for them it is unbarable. Unlike us they are not content to go to work, go home, go to sleep and get up to do it all again. Basically live out life as a nobody to very many (in relation to the overall world population) and somebody to a few.
Instead FAME…at any cost…Because right now we are writing and reading about this kid and he’s been on the news all day. He wanted that and he was willing to do what ever it took for it to happen. Because lets face it…We wouldn’t be writing or reading about this him if he went to school today and got an A on his algebra exam.
Two: It is a shame.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Matt, get ready for that “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” crap that’s certain to follow any mention of Gun control.
All it might have taken for this young man to change his mind about what he was planning would have been a little bit of a roadblock, some difficulty or maybe just a little stress caused by the possible acquisition of a firearm, which was the tool he needed to carry out his plan. Just a 15 minute extra walk, along with some extra introspection, to an illegal arms selling establishment could have been all it took for this teenager to reconsider. If it’s not so damn EASY for him, he just may make a better choice. Maybe in that 15 minutes he just might have bumped into someone who could have helped, even with a small joke or a simple greeting.
The United States is making it terribly difficult for Iran to acquire Nuclear Capability because there’s a fear that they just might use it on someone. This is gun control, on a much larger scale. But, the principle still applies.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
People will always find a way to matter to other people, even if it is only a few. There are few absolute truths of life.
The greatest tragedy we suffer is the commodification of others: There is nothing further from who you are than what I want out of you; but, when I have taken what I want, ironically and tragically, you will have nothing of yourself left. You must look after those who are looked over.
We live in a world of insubstantiality, indifference and “small talk”, and I simply cannot understand (and all the Jesus freaks out there, this is for you) how you can walk into a church and knock someone to the side when you walk out. Try being human before you before you get rapturous about saving your soul when He cometh.
The world is too big, though. How much difference does it make? For all your effort and civility (which some of us might call “refinement”, undoubtedly something to which we should aspire individually and as a society) you can never expect it to be returned. That is an absolute truth of our world; and, yes, in case you were wondering, my car has tinted windows because I think it keeps the world an optional place for me to be.
P. Martini
December 6th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
One of the things I keep hearing in news broadcasts are references to the mental health of the shooter. It worried me that this would be the primary focus behind the shooting; that he just snapped under pressure and this is the end result.
It’s a sad, sad story.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
It’s so often the quiet outcast that slipped through the cracks…
The “signs” are always there after the fact it seems… but where were they before?
The sad reality is that the very condition they need help for pushes them further and further away from those who could provide it.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
I love that song and so true a lyric for poor old bob.
Eisenhower tried to warn us about the threat of profit above all else and to hell with the consequences. They should just make guns in the US illegal but too many people at the highest levels of government are just happy about how much money they are all making in one big circle **** .
I apologize for the speech length but you should search on the internet and read the whole thing.
“ In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. “ - I am surprised they didn’t shoot him for saying that
Eisenhower’s Farewell Address to the Nation
January 17, 1961
But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise.
Of these, I mention two only.
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence economic, political, even spiritual is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present ? and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society’s future, we you and I, and our government must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without asking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be, instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.
Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years ? I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Not that it affects your message, but most “assault rifles” these days are 5.56mm. The M16, and Canada’s own C7/C8, indeed most of NATO, run with the smaller caliber. But yeh, it’s an assault rifle, for whatever that label has to do with anything.
I don’t think it has anything to do with anything.
You ask “what possesses any young person to go on a shooting rampage as a way to attain some sort of finality?” Mental illness. Nothing less, and not much more is required. If the assault rifle weren’t available, perhaps he’d use a car and plow into a crowd. A lot of damage can be done that way too.
Don’t blame it on video games. Or maybe do. Or not. Regardless, what do you do? I like playing Halo. Should a very (very) small minority of mentally deranged deprive me of that?
Music? Yeh, rap incites violence. But since I don’t happen to like rap, sure, go ahead and ban it. Couldn’t care less.
As Matt points out, these are cop outs anyways.
But here’s a bit of deterrent. First off, I don’t want to know his name. You name him, you perpetuate the illness. I didn’t know his name until I read your entry Matt. Part of the problem.
Second of all, make it a crime to name him.
Third, take his body; it becomes the property of the nearest medical school for use in education. When they’re done, cremate, and (very publicly) flush the ashes down a toilet. Televise this. Any assets? Confiscated. Notes published on myspace or noxopia or somesuch? They get fined 1 million per victim, to the benefit of the victims’ family.
I’m sure we can think of many other ways to take away attention seeking acts like this less profitable. If you’re willing to ban guns and video games, then you have to be game for this too.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Great post Matt, and to that probably my longest post in answer to it…
I don’t understand what could possibly be going through someone’s mind when they decide to take the life of a complete stranger (in this case, 8) before ultimately taking there own. In this particular case, it was to become famous. Which, unfortunately, he knew he could get with the actions he took. The way things are in the US (can’t speak for other countries), the fastest way to fame is through reprehensible acts of violence…O.J. Simpson (on trial for the 2nd time), Scott Peterson, and the innumerable amount of other violent offenders who have become famous for nothing more than the horrible crimes they have commited.
As far as the sympathy vote for this boy goes, well… I can say that it’s sad that he had a shitty life, but it is most certainly not an excuse in any way what he did. I was a victim of sexual, physical, and mental abuse for the first 16 years of my life, but I sure don’t use that as an excuse to hurt anyone, or basically act like an ass. I know it’s different for everybody, and that people react differently to different situations. My sister who is 5 years younger than I suffered the physical and mental abuse, and she went the other route…drugs, stealing, and just plain mean, to be honest. Now that she is a little older now with 2 daughters of her own, she is trying to break from all that, because she doesn’t want my nieces to end up that way. My point is, it is sad when you feel your only option is to take your own life, but all my sympathy goes out the window when innocent victims are brought into the equation, especially in the name of fame.
So I guess what I feel it comes down to is that people need to wake up and start doing some damage control….
If you don’t think you can handle the responsibility of caring for another human being that you bring into the world, there are ways to prevent it….
If you are a parent, raise your child yourself. Don’t let the TV, video games, computers, etc. do it for you.
If your son/daughter is only 12, do you really need to be buying them games like “Grand Theft Auto” and the like? Seriously? And why does your child need to have a computer in their room, or a cell phone at the age of 10? And for god’s sake, stop complaining about the fact that your children are dressing too grown up for their age if you are the one buying their clothes.
Being a parent is far more important than being your child’s “best friend”….
Unless you want your child to be famous too.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
[quote comment="35080"]Matt, get ready for that “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” crap that’s certain to follow any mention of Gun control.
All it might have taken for this young man to change his mind about what he was planning would have been a little bit of a roadblock, some difficulty or maybe just a little stress caused by the possible acquisition of a firearm, which was the tool he needed to carry out his plan. Just a 15 minute extra walk, along with some extra introspection, to an illegal arms selling establishment could have been all it took for this teenager to reconsider. If it’s not so damn EASY for him, he just may make a better choice. Maybe in that 15 minutes he just might have bumped into someone who could have helped, even with a small joke or a simple greeting.
The United States is making it terribly difficult for Iran to acquire Nuclear Capability because there’s a fear that they just might use it on someone. This is gun control, on a much larger scale. But, the principle still applies.[/quote]
I am inclined to believe that any person who has decided to take their own life after killing others will not be deterred by a few more minutes walk. The gun control issue is a bit of a red herring, it’s an awfully expensive and administratively prohibitive course of action to “maybe” get this guy to make a better choice. I can’t imagine that planning to do this would be a decision that one would arrive at easily.
And I am certainly not advocating a free for all when it comes to buying/aquiring guns but to suggest that tougher gun laws would stop or inhibit this action is to miss the point. There is already a law on the books that covers this, it’s called MURDER.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Will this all lead to major social changes such as - people not allowed to have children without proving they are capable parents - then how do you stop people from having kids…
I don’t think there’s any way you can prevent certain behaviours unless you can control the quality of the upbringing of children (which you can’t).
People must take responsibility for themselves and the children they raise.
So, assuming there are going to be disturbed people among us, if no guns were allowed in the hands of civilians, crimes like this would be impossible.
December 6th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
I’m quiet and weird and lonely. These incidents make people afraid of me, make them whisper behind their hands.
I won’t hurt anyone, but if people are afraid of me because I’m weird I could end up hurting myself. Life is a series of breaking out of cycles, until one of them becomes a spiral.
December 6th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
WIth all of these killing sprees I often wonder if CNN is to somewhat to blame. I don’t think the massive media coverage of these murder/suicides have any positive effect on the situation. After all, without them, the level of infamy would not be nearly the same. If that is a major “reason” why these troubled kids do these uncomprehensible acts, maybe a lack of national coverage would reduce these tragedies. Even if it is only by one.
By the way this is my first post here (after finding the site after Matt Good was on George’s The Hour on the CBC) and please if you see me make a fool of myself, let me know. I often write without really thinking and I always like to be proven wrong! Seriously.
December 6th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
CNN is always to blame for everything. If you aren’t fearful most of your waking hours, CNN isn’t doing its job: advertisers are unhappy and so is the Bush “dumbocracy” in general. Throw away your television.
P. Martini
December 6th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Yes, there is a law on the books for it and it is called murder. Unfortunately, the guy who would be put on trial for murder in this case is kind of dead.
December 6th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Maybe this is as good as it gets? Religion was the cause of all the suffering in the medieval ages, because of the inquisition and the crusades, then it was atheism because of the holocaust and communism, and now its some concoction of guns, rock music, TV, and unbridled capitalism. There is a great truth to that saying that “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”, because neither are religions, ideologies, drugs, tv, you name it, the causes of suffering. The truth of the matter is that we cause our own suffering, thats how it has always been, and I venture to say thats how it will continue to be till some giant space rock slams into us, or some other cataclysmic event wipes out mankind. If its not some kid going postal in a mall because he hates the world, then its some fanatic blowing himself up on a bus in the name of Islam, and if its not George Bush, then its Putin, or Ahmadinejad, but one thing you can be sure of is that it will most definitely be someone. Its either democracy and guns, or totalitarianism and tracking collars around our necks, as far as im concerned.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:40 am
“But the question has to be asked – what possesses a young man to go on a suicidal shooting rampage in hopes of securing fame, even if cloaked in infamy?”
Three words: Mark David Chapman.
December 7th, 2007 at 4:00 am
Ban all firearms. I hate guns.
December 7th, 2007 at 4:44 am
HelpmeJebus,
I’m not missing the point. Cause and effect simply indicates if there’s no gun, MURDER becomes more difficult. When I was a 16 year old, irresponsible, fun-junkie teenager and me and my friends wanted to get some alcohol, maybe act a little stupid or maybe get behind the wheel of a car, many of those nights we remained sober simply due to the difficulty of acquiring alcohol. Some nights we got it, many nights we didn’t. Selling alcohol to minors was/is ILLEGAL and I couldn’t drive drunk, if I couldn’t GET drunk. A law that keeps a drunk teenager from driving a car just one night per month CAN save lives.
If society removes all deterrants to crime in a quest to maximize profit, then those teetering close to the edge have an easier time taking that last step.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:17 am
i I am all for tougher gun laws.. but I dont in any way think that having tougher laws is really going to make someone who is hell bent on killing to prove a point, a real distraction or prohibative. It will drop the murder rate dramatically..but will it prevent it? No. The justice system here in the states in awful, it will put a rape victim on trial rather then the offender and will protect the right of a sex offender but not the rights of families and children who dont want them in the neighborhood.. as long as laws and a justice system that covets these people, then murder wont stop-cause it makes you famous and other acts of violence wont stop because the law doesnt support itself.
It also comes down to parenting, in my own opinion. I have a 3 year old son and he is just a sponge. Case in point, I was watching Transformers (which was actually good) and there was a scene where Mega Tron tossed a car out of his way to move down this street. That is really a *innocent* scene as far as violence goes. Well my son who was asleep in his bed woke up and came out to the living room and was sitting there behind the couch and watched this. He walks up to my kitten, Chota the Great, and picks him up and tosses him out of the way, just as he saw on the TV. I was really pissed. So I stopped the movie, crouched in front of him and asked him why he did it.. he said The Monster did it on TV so he did it. I stopped the movie.. talked to him about what he did wrong and put him back to bed.. once he was asleep I watched the rest of it. My point.. a Child Will Learn what he Lives.. I cant stress that enough. As a abover poster said ( and I am sorry I cant remeber their name) but you cant expect society to parent your child. Either you take the responsiablity with what having a child brings or dont have them. Dont make others or inanimate objects the parents to your children.
There are exceptions to this rule, there are some kids who just grow up to be rotten adults… my cousin is one of em.. He was given what he needed as a kid and was loved and respected and still grew up to be a bastard. That might in all realitys be a chemical inbalance. But who knows.. and it doesnt matter.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:56 am
I refuse to feel sympathy this murderer. If he had waited two more years and done this, no one would have said “Oh, the poor man. He had such a rough up bringing, if only someone could have reached him sooner” They would have said “What kind of monster guns down innocent people.”
Millions of people in this world had shitty childhoods and wretched highschool experiences and suffer some form of depression and they don’t all go out in blaze of “glory” by murdering innocent people.
As far as the notion that banning assault rifles would have stopped this, the Virgninia Tech killer murdered dozens more people using pistols, Dahmer used knives and cleavers.
There is no “fix” for this problem. We live in a society of millions of people, there’s bound to be sick, broken monsters out there who have no regard for human life whether they’re young, old, atheist, Christian, white, or black. And they’ll kill using whatever means at their disposal.
One thing I do agree with though is that the media needs to stop sensationalizing these events. Of course these stories should be reported on. It speaks to our nation and culture that the murder of 8 people is a national tragedy, when considered that in other parts of the world the loss of dozens of lives a day is seen as commonplace.
But they should be reported to celebrate the lives of the victims not to give us the biography of a psychopath. We’ve all seen this monster’s picture and heard his life story, but does anyone know the name of a single victim. This guys name and image and life story should be put in a dark box and lost in the sands of time. The report should be “Annonymous gunman viciously murdered Bob Smith, Mary Johnson, etc… in cold blood.” If they need to sensationalize it, then do stories on the victims’ families. Stress the loss of human life and the grief brought on by these actions, but leave the killer to die in obscurity.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Is it just me that gets the first character of each line of the comments section cut off using IE6 or does anybody else have this problem? I mentioned this before Matt. Is there something up with the left margin settings?
I agree with 4562, the killers should be anonymous and the victims and their families should be reported on. The Media sucks and it would be nice if they would change to reporting the news instead of sensationalizing BS, of course this will never happen!
Gotta go…………….I think I’ll buy me one of those awesome 911 commerative coins with the standing twin towers made from real .999% pure silver recovered from the 911 wreckage site! Fuck, I hate TV and the fact that barely anyone has any integrity anymore!
December 7th, 2007 at 7:41 am
Looks like a few people have already said it but here are my 2 cents.
20 years ago the murder-suicide would have only been a suicide. In today’s age with over 7,000 channels populating your TV set, anyone can have their 15 minutes of fame. Most of our news casts (or as I call them bad-news casts since bad news is always a lead story) have deteriorated to the point where every dimwit with something to say or to show will be deemed newsworthy.
Better yet, if you have a video worthy of America’s Funniest Home Videos or Stupid Pet Tricks, you’d be better off sending it of to CNN where’s it’s guaranteed to get some airtime and end up as one of the most-viewed “stories” on their website.
In a world where we NEED to know what celebrities eat, where they party, who they fuck and how they dress, a shooting of innocent people will definitely make you a part of STORY OF THE DAY.
And leave it to the TV networks to put the worst spin on the whole thing.
Would you be suprised if in another 10 years, our streets will be empty because people will be afraid to go shopping, send their kids to school or spend a day in the park?
December 7th, 2007 at 7:53 am
[quote comment="35062"]Sports broadcasters will not broadcast images of fools who run onto the field so, as explained, the idiot does not get his/her 15 minutes of fame.
Yet within hours of somebody gunning down 8 people in a mall I know his name and I’ve seen his picture online and on my TV. This guy said he wanted to be famous. He was granted his wish.
Sure, we don’t believe him to be more than a deeply troubled soul who might have missed a single instant from somebody or something that would have prevented what happened.
But to the troubled souls waiting in line. This guy is famous. The whole media world is shining a spotlight on him and politically correctness mandates that analysts pity him as a poor poor boy who might have been saved but nobody saw it or cared about it.
Now that last paragraph isn’t me being unsimpathetic. I’m just trying to point out why it’s bound to happen again, and again.[/quote]
I agree Dan..
December 7th, 2007 at 9:54 am
How about we just ban malls?
Makes about as much sense as banning guns. If this kid was out to be famous for a killing spree, he could just as easily have done it with pipe bombs, knives, poison, or just waited at the soccer field… trail a mom after practice with her own and several other’s kids all piled into a minivan and then run them off the road.
This kid consciously made the effort, and for that he deserves no sympathy.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:55 am
[quote comment="35109"]I refuse to feel sympathy this murderer. If he had waited two more years and done this, no one would have said “Oh, the poor man. He had such a rough up bringing, if only someone could have reached him sooner” They would have said “What kind of monster guns down innocent people.”
Millions of people in this world had shitty childhoods and wretched highschool experiences and suffer some form of depression and they don’t all go out in blaze of “glory” by murdering innocent people.
As far as the notion that banning assault rifles would have stopped this, the Virgninia Tech killer murdered dozens more people using pistols, Dahmer used knives and cleavers.
There is no “fix” for this problem. We live in a society of millions of people, there’s bound to be sick, broken monsters out there who have no regard for human life whether they’re young, old, atheist, Christian, white, or black. And they’ll kill using whatever means at their disposal.
One thing I do agree with though is that the media needs to stop sensationalizing these events. Of course these stories should be reported on. It speaks to our nation and culture that the murder of 8 people is a national tragedy, when considered that in other parts of the world the loss of dozens of lives a day is seen as commonplace.
But they should be reported to celebrate the lives of the victims not to give us the biography of a psychopath. We’ve all seen this monster’s picture and heard his life story, but does anyone know the name of a single victim. This guys name and image and life story should be put in a dark box and lost in the sands of time. The report should be “Annonymous gunman viciously murdered Bob Smith, Mary Johnson, etc… in cold blood.” If they need to sensationalize it, then do stories on the victims’ families. Stress the loss of human life and the grief brought on by these actions, but leave the killer to die in obscurity.[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more. How many “troubled” kids are out there in the US and Canada? millions, for sure. and how many saw the killer’s bio and said, “hey, that sounds like my life…” and all of a sudden an unimaginable option becomes imaginable.
There should be very strict gun controls (really, there is only one purpose for their design, to kill another human. Sick, when you think about it that way.), but guns are just one of many means to an end and spree killing is just a symptom of a larger, insidious set of issues that affect, or will affect, us all.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:26 am
I agree with Mr. Pitt: there need not be any gun control, for there should be no guns, period.
As for mor, what would you say if this “psychopath” was your best friend, or your child? Would you cast him into the sands of time to be forever forgotten? Would you curse your wife for bearing a “monster”? Would you curse yourself for conceiving one? How about the society that reinforced this “monster”?
This young man is as much a victim as his victims. We are all responsible for the nine lives lost in that Omaha shopping centre. So long as we wash our hands of this and bury our heads in the sand, this will not be the last time we hear this tale.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:46 am
‘It’s a dangerous business going out your front door.’
December 7th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Dear mad people,
I hate you. I am currently at a point in my life that I will soon be building a family with someone that I love very much. When I sit at home and watch unforgiveable stories like this one on tv, I cry. I cry because those people and any innocent person that died in the result of someone’s violent outburst could have been someone that I love, know, and cared for. Not only people in my life, but anyone who is trying to live their life should not be affected because you’re mad. I can’t wait to build a family and experience everything that life is going to throw my way. Why must you assholes give me doubt as to why I should bring another innocent person into the world. Shit happens. Life sometimes sucks. Don’t take someones life away from them because your mad or depressed or upset or whatever your sad story is. Let people be happy. Leave us happy people alone. We will all deal with our own issues by ourselves and not bother you. I will not watch my children be who they want to be and then let you take that away from them. When will you idiot’s realize that your problem is not everyone else’s. Imagine the people that have to go to funerals right before Christmas? WOW.
Thank you so much for making this world a scarier place,
Innocent
P.S. Matt you rock! Great concert in Ottawa. Thanks for the opportunity to let my feelings be read.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Quoting: Misinformation
“We are all responsible for the nine lives lost in that Omaha shopping centre. So long as we wash our hands of this and bury our heads in the sand, this will not be the last time we hear this tale.”
WHAT?? We are not all responsible. You take the blame. Not me. If this guy called me and asked me for help, I would help him. No, it wont be the last time, but I will not be held responsible for his actions. Nor should everyone else. It was his decision. I make my own. I don’t push people to cause violence or hurt anyone in anyway.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:36 am
[quote comment="35124"]WHAT?? We are not all responsible. You take the blame. Not me. If this guy called me and asked me for help, I would help him. No, it wont be the last time, but I will not be held responsible for his actions. Nor should everyone else. It was his decision. I make my own. I don’t push people to cause violence or hurt anyone in anyway.[/quote]
The bastion of an unenlightened being. I hope, one day, this will change.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:41 am
[quote comment="35123"]Imagine the people that have to go to funerals right before Christmas? WOW.
[/quote]
Chances are he wasn’t thinking about Christmas when he decided to do what he did.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:48 am
[quote comment="35127"][quote comment="35123"]Imagine the people that have to go to funerals right before Christmas? WOW.
[/quote]
Chances are he wasn’t thinking about Christmas when he decided to do what he did.[/quote]
Your right. Chances are he wasn’t. Any time of the year to go to a funeral is not a good time. I was just picturing people at a funeral and imagining Christmas right around the corner.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:51 am
I find it interesting that the media gave this boy exactly what he wanted … Fame.
He is all over the T.V., He is all over the news, perhaps we’ll see him in Macleans next week.
But he is not NEW…he is not the FIRST, and he certainly will not be the LAST. But lets give him credit because he went to a shopping mall, not a school this time. He only upped the anti.
I was in high school seven years ago and I remember clearly one guy in my school at Calgary getting shot and killed in the stairwell, I also remember witnessing a guy getting stabbed in a fight on school grounds. This was seven years ago…I am not surprised by anything anymore.
The emerging New World makes people feel small, hell it makes me feel F***ing small. But nobody’s listening. Nothing will change the fact that the more we turn our heads to what is going on in the world the more we can expect bad shit like this to happen on a re-occuring basis, cause it already is. What I would like to do is answer one of Matthew’s questions.
What possesses a young man to go on a suicidal shooting rampage in hopes of securing fame, even if cloaked in infamy?
I remember being a young teenager like it was yesterday. I also remember going through terrible times with my so-called “friends”. And all the bullshit that came along with trying to fit in. I grew up in Citadel Heights, POCO, B.C. (A wealthy suburban neighborhood), my parents went into debt buying our house, I didn’t fit in at all. I came from a small elementary school in Coquitlam and lived on the wrong side of the tracks before moving to that suburb. I hated it. I hated the kids that went there. Everyday sporting new track suits, new shoes, discmans, walkmans, and all the latest crap that my parents would never be able to afford. I remember being pushed into a small lake that was in a park by our school because I wasn’t wearing designer clothes or shoes. The 3 years that I attended that middle school, I thought about suicide. My friend even went as far to write out letters to everyone she knew that hurt her that she wanted me to disperse after her passing, so they would know how they had hurt her. (She did not pass away tho, I got her help after she gave me the letters) I remember thinking when I contemplated suicide: I want them to know how much they hurt me, I want them to pay and feel sorry for what they did. Of course, it was a passing phase. But perhaps that boy was in a similar frame of mind. People putting him down, loner at school, hard to make friends, picked on and that’s all it takes sometimes for people to put everything down, throw their hands up in the air and say F**K it. F**K u and u and u. I’m gonna go out all the way and show them what they’ve done. It’s juvenile, immature, and sick, for sure. But, I could only imagine in a world where 20% of students would give up their right to vote for an iPod touch and we worry about iTunes more than our democratic freedoms, how does anyone feel stable or wanted or cared for or normal or have a sense of belonging anymore?
The questions we ask of these offenders is a catch twenty two. The world says they want to understand but in order to understand, they blame video games, movies, and violent T.V., not realizing that it’s our own methods to “civilized” culture that is causing these people to feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I would bet they even get to a point where they don’t even care about you or I or thou. We only have the culture to blame for that. Some people are going to get hurt, some people are going to go crazy, some people are going to get sick…that’s the price we pay for globalization.
I’m not defending anybody or anything by saying this….I’m just pointing out some observations.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:54 am
“Youth today live in a world of fear, a world of lies, a world of engineered wars, false hopes, false beliefs, and view those that promote such nonsense for what they are – full of shit.”
Bingo!
December 7th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
[quote comment="35126"][quote comment="35124"]WHAT?? We are not all responsible. You take the blame. Not me. If this guy called me and asked me for help, I would help him. No, it wont be the last time, but I will not be held responsible for his actions. Nor should everyone else. It was his decision. I make my own. I don’t push people to cause violence or hurt anyone in anyway.[/quote]
The bastion of an unenlightened being. I hope, one day, this will change.[/quote]
Misinformation - I agree with a hundred and ten percent. It is exactly that.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
To all those here who are saying the solution is that there should be no guns: Stop being ridiculous. Might as well say there should be no rocks for all the good it will do. The Kungfoochef was right when he said it would make as much sense to ban malls…
And I know it’s largely unimportant in the grand scheme, but since Matt used the first paragraph and picture to point out the weapon the kid used…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22150130/
Not an SKS, but a full-blown AK-47 (I know the difference; I was in the US Army, and actually own an SKS; which in Canada, are blocked to 5 round capacity). And the M-16 fires a smaller round, 5.56×45mm.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
you’re always so right…
i dont think anyone makes more sense than you do.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
now I know I’m on thin ice here
but what the hell…
Dear Innocent
You are absolutely right. I hate when people shatter my more-or-less perfect world with senseless violence & all those ugly things I’d rather pretend don’t exist. Life is hard enough. These mad/upset/depressed/mentally ill assholes should all just stay away from the rest of society so us normal people can live out our happy lives in blissful ignorance. We are all content in great relationships with people we love very much & don’t understand how someone could possibly be any different. & As such we are happy to continue to be oblivious to the very existence of these “mad people” who are just jealous because they don’t have the things we have. Too bad, so sad, shit happens, whatever your sad story is…But we should all be able to deal with it since we all have loving relationships & families who help us cope with the bullshit. These other people are just not normal & it’s their own fault. They are not victims, they are monsters who feel like they must ruin everyone else’s lives simply because theirs sucks. We shouldn’t have sympathy for this kid. He obviously isn’t human enough to warrant it. If this sort of incident is what it takes for these sorts of people to feel acknowledged, then that’s pathetic. I don’t have sympathy for these kinds of people, I’d rather they didn’t exist at all or lived in isolation away from normal happy people in happy-happy land (i.e the mall). And if they wanna take a life, they have their own life to dispose of. They are obviously not worth a damn if they are that troubled anyway. Who the fuck wants to deal with that, right? Rid us of yourself if you are such a burden; be my guest but do it in a way that won’t affect others.
Everything is as it should be until these people start doing these crazy things.
My potential kids, of course, could never end up like this boy because I will raise them to be happy. They wouldn’t seek out fame, especially using such desperate violent measures because they would have people around them who care & acknowledge them for who they are.
If you’ve got issues, they have pills for that. Go see your doctor. It’s a chemical imbalance. We can fix you if we just throw more chemicals at you.
Are you Crazy? Don’t say no to drugs!
It’s a win-win situation for everybody. It’s good for you. It’s good for business. & if you do your part to drive the economy via pharmaceutical companies you can feel proud & happy to be a productive member of society & maybe you wouldn’t get to the point of wanting to kill yourself to begin with, eh?
The point is: Society is not the problem. It is a ‘happy’ society we all live in. Why the hell are these people not content to live out their shadowy meaningless lives as mere commodities? Learn to love it. Learn to sell yourself on the dating market & maybe you won’t be so fucking isolated to begin with. & If you’re a product that doesn’t sell it’s a given that you’re gonna lose out. Shoulda known better. Why be disappointed? Maybe you need to channel your anger to prove them wrong & pour your energy into more “self improvement”. Go join the gym, whiten your teeth or go on a shopping spree at the mall not on a fucking shooting spree…
& make this world a beautiful wealthy pretentious (non-scary) place
Another “Innocent”…
December 7th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
[quote comment="35098"]Yes, there is a law on the books for it and it is called murder. Unfortunately, the guy who would be put on trial for murder in this case is kind of dead.[/quote]
That’s my point: he was a committed individual. Regardless of the method, it would seem reasonable to assume he was going to go out “in a blaze of glory” and take as many people with him as possible.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
[quote comment="35102"]“But the question has to be asked – what possesses a young man to go on a suicidal shooting rampage in hopes of securing fame, even if cloaked in infamy?”
Three words: Mark David Chapman.[/quote]
Actually, Chapman is still alive and murdered someONE. And he did it more in keeping with the attitude of J.D. Salinger’s protagonist in the Catcher in the Rye: he hated the phoniness of people and felt that John Lennon best typified that which he found unbearable.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
[quote comment="35105"]I’m not missing the point. Cause and effect simply indicates if there’s no gun, MURDER becomes more difficult. When I was a 16 year old, irresponsible, fun-junkie teenager and me and my friends wanted to get some alcohol, maybe act a little stupid or maybe get behind the wheel of a car, many of those nights we remained sober simply due to the difficulty of acquiring alcohol. Some nights we got it, many nights we didn’t. Selling alcohol to minors was/is ILLEGAL and I couldn’t drive drunk, if I couldn’t GET drunk. A law that keeps a drunk teenager from driving a car just one night per month CAN save lives.
If society removes all deterrants to crime in a quest to maximize profit, then those teetering close to the edge have an easier time taking that last step.[/quote]
Not really, murder with a GUN becomes more difficult. Perhaps it would be best to chop off the trigger finger of every person thereby making the act of pulling the trigger that more difficult? Ridonculous…
I say missing the point because everyone who writes asking about how this could possibly happen (the why, as opposed to the how) is referring to what exactly is going through someone’s head. The gun is a means to an end, an end that, as demonstrated by this one individual, is a foregone conclusion. If your analogy regarding the underage drinking were true, then we wouldn’t have any drunk teenagers or drunk driving accidents and so on. It worked with you because I am assuming you are a law-abiding citizen who would otherwise obey the laws. A criminal or like-minded folk do not factor that into the equation; who ever thinks they are going to get caught?
And besides, a math program that only teaches one child math would be scrapped in an instant. Why is it different with a law when “…if it saves one life…” it’s worth it? It seems to me the laws are working just fine (sentencing could improve…) This is a cost of living in a free society, we get to make choices and sometimes there are a few disturbed individuals who make bad ones.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
But is the freedom to own guns one that really should be cherished as much as say, freedom of opinion or freedom of assembly? Would it really cause irreparable harm to the cause of freedom to, say, register guns as you would cars, and ban guns that are clearly not meant for target practice or hunting, such as all automatic weapons? I say not, and I furthermore say that if gun control prevents even one fatality, fuckin’ go for it.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Yes, Stephen K.
And if banning cars saves just one innocent from a traffic fatality, then let’s ban cars too. Simplistic and fairly unenlightened.
December 8th, 2007 at 12:24 am
Boreal, actually read what I said next time. I said control guns as cars are already, not ban them. I said ban automatic weapons, and they are not analogous to cars as they serve no useful purpose.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:34 am
You confuse automatic weapons with other kinds of actions. Generally, autos are pretty rare in both the US and Canada.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Yes, but they are often used in killing sprees. Ban them.
December 8th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
This is extremely heart-breaking.
Everyone blames it on the media, video games, etc. But the real problem is parenting. How the hell did that kid get hold of a gun?
I just find it terrible that 8 families lost loved ones because some punk kid wanted “to be famous”. How ridiculous is that? Wanting to be famous for a mass-murder-suicide.
Parenting is the problem. So many parents don’t give a rats ass in regards to their kids. They probably complained about their lives to their kids, and that is all the kids know. Then suddenly something goes wrong (like getting dumped, and fired from McDonalds), and their whole worlds fall apart. We are so spoiled here that we consider that problems. Getting fired from McDonalds? Walk over to Subway.
Don’t get me wrong. It sucks that this is all this kid knew, and that he thought that this is ok. But the problems are so much deeper than this.
I hate that he thought there was no way out when I’ve seen people in third world countries first hand, who live in terrible conditions, and yet have the most amazing attitudes.
December 8th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
[quote comment="35194"]Yes, but they are often used in killing sprees.
Ban them.[/quote]
Automatic weapons are banned in Canada unless you are grandfathered. The States are different of course. Of course that hasn’t stopped criminals from getting them…
December 8th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
[quote comment="35202"]This is extremely heart-breaking.
Everyone blames it on the media, video games, etc. But the real problem is parenting. How the hell did that kid get hold of a gun?
I just find it terrible that 8 families lost loved ones because some punk kid wanted “to be famous”. How ridiculous is that? Wanting to be famous for a mass-murder-suicide.
Parenting is the problem. So many parents don’t give a rats ass in regards to their kids. They probably complained about their lives to their kids, and that is all the kids know. Then suddenly something goes wrong (like getting dumped, and fired from McDonalds), and their whole worlds fall apart. We are so spoiled here that we consider that problems. Getting fired from McDonalds? Walk over to Subway.
Don’t get me wrong. It sucks that this is all this kid knew, and that he thought that this is ok. But the problems are so much deeper than this.
I hate that he thought there was no way out when I’ve seen people in third world countries first hand, who live in terrible conditions, and yet have the most amazing attitudes.[/quote]
This guy was 19, not a kid, and could legally buy a gun.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Our society is f’d up. Thats a big part of the problem. The family unit has disintigrated compared to, say, 50 years ago. Divorce is rampant. Both parents work mostly nowadays, leaving the parents not knowing WTF their kids are doing for much of the day. Young children being raised by complete strangers so the parents can afford to put dinner on the table. All of this is going to have an affect on a kid.
My mother always reminds me how things are so much more fast-paced today. So many more presures, especially for youths. Its a confusing world. Sex, drugs, peer-pressure seem to just be getting worse pressures for teens. Doesn’t help with the other things as violence, profanity, and sex in the media are bombarding young people at a rate unprecedented. Kids grow up FAST, and are exposed to a lot more at a much younger age. My cousin watches WWE, the “Jackass” movies, Trailer Park Boys…and he’s only 14. Thats some adult shit. Blame the parents too, but its hard to keep that stuff away if its broadcasted to the world..
This ain’t the 1950’s anymore, thats for sure. Feel bad for that kid, and the victims.
December 9th, 2007 at 9:44 am
I lost a cousin to suicide. It was a different situation, dealing with drugs and theft, but non-the-less too much the same. To anyone who feels that no one loves you, you are loved so so so much. I never really “knew” my cousin, but I think about him every single day, and my heart aches for the childhood he had to endure, and the adult life the was produced. Elliott Smith says in his song Waltz #2 (XO) “I’m never going to know you now, but I’m going to love you anyhow.” I am to have this tattooed on my back for my cousin, and for all of those out there who feel like no one notices. There will almost always be hidden people in your life who love your more than anything, but sometimes it doesn’t become known until much too late. Please never, ever be shy or ashamed to let someone know how much you love them.
Here’s a poem I wrote about three years ago about saving one of those people who feel disconnected from the rest of the world.
Monochromatic Sky
Lying back in the vast fields
of a balmy countryside,
I rest my eyes upon a unique soul
in the monochromatic sky above.
My vision is placed upon a star;
not a great one, likes ones most familiar,
but one recognisably diverse
for it does not shine the best
or flicker as intensely.
I learn to expand myself
and focus on above.
Holding my breath, I then slowly
stretch out my arms…
and let the pressure within amplify.
My head begins to spin,
and I race to steady my balance.
I take hold of the hidden bars,
that are there for my support.
Taking stance I reach up and
pluck the beauty from the sky.
As it rests in my palms
I drop to my knees and dig a
deep, deep hole.
Pushing deeper into the core,
I rest the star in its native soil
and as quickly as it was detached
the star becomes a part of what
it once was.
Suicide is so tragic, especially when other lives are taken in the process. We must remember that these people weren’t ready for life yet, and I desperately hope in their next lives to come they are much stronger. We must love them all the same, and learn from what we are seeing.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:06 am
I am also wondering, along with the rest of you, if this child specifically said they did this to become famous, then why did the media share this story with the public? Does that not just prove that those who want to become famous by going on a killng spree that you will get you exactly what you want if you do so? I think no matter how much we should be aware of these types of situations that are going on, if the child specifically claimed he wanted to become famous the media should have purposely and consciously left it out of the news. Honestly, what were they thinking? I hope someone can answer that, and give a good reason as to why the media, under these specific circumstances, would share this story.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Re automatic weapons, I’m talking about the United States.
December 10th, 2007 at 5:58 am
[quote comment="35220"]I am also wondering, along with the rest of you, if this child specifically said they did this to become famous, then why did the media share this story with the public? Does that not just prove that those who want to become famous by going on a killng spree that you will get you exactly what you want if you do so? I think no matter how much we should be aware of these types of situations that are going on, if the child specifically claimed he wanted to become famous the media should have purposely and consciously left it out of the news. Honestly, what were they thinking? I hope someone can answer that, and give a good reason as to why the media, under these specific circumstances, would share this story.[/quote]
He didn’t do it just to be famous. There are other reasons he did it. This story is news. Why would the news channels leave it out? How could, say CNN, hide it from the world? If the story wasn’t covered, we would be not taking it seriously. I wouldn’t exactly call his exposure to the world fame.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
He obviously didn’t do it “just” to be famous… if you read my message above the last I wrote, you would see how I feel about suicide.
I’m sure you have also heard that sometimes people do acts like this to get their “fifteen minutes of fame”. (Obviously not “just for that reason”, but it’s often a big part of it). Robert Hawkins specifically wrote in his suicide letter that he wanted to be famous, and he got what he wanted. Sometimes people want attention, even if it’s in the most negative form. What do you think it does to a person’s ego when they kill someone, and their face is on the front of every magazine? If Hawkins hadn’t made that claim, I may not be feeling this exact same way.
And truly, what is the importance of this specific story? Are we all going to watch over our shoulders when we go to the mall now? We know this situation is going on. How many school shootings have we seen happen in only the last short while? I honestly don’t believe we would be seeing as many school shootings, or mass murders by such young people, if the stories weren’t broadcasted as much as they are. With drugs and everything extremely negative, there is a sort of “glamour” that is created. It’s as though these situations are so horrendous that they become appealing to some.
Do you really believe that each of these individuals thought up the school/mall shootings on their own? I don’t think so. It started out with a couple of students who created such a fuss that, as we can see, others wanted a part of. Had the names and locations of these students not be revealed, or possibly if the stories had not gotten so much coverage, I highly doubt we would be seeing as much of this mass murder as we are. Media is media. I think we all know how the media will often do anything to get a good story……
December 10th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Think to the time you wanted to hurt someone, or the world in general, it may give you some understanding of what Hawkins felt. If you have been in that dark a place.
We can’t fully understand though, the only who could explain is dead.
December 10th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
And perhaps the only reason why we will never know what he was thinking is because, before he shot innocent people nobody cared.