Even though you can’t ignite compassion in people via laws, at least you can make them think twice before violating someone’s rights! They are people too!

Let’s hope the laws apply to EVERYONE, no exceptions (aka police/security personnel).

As satchboogieca said, “They are people too.”

I don’t understand what can drive a person to harass someone that’s homeless, let alone anyone that they don’t know. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with people? I could never see anyone I’ve never known and suddenly think in my head “Hey, that person is inferior to me. How about I go make their life worse than it already is.”

Some people disgust me. Thanks to all those who aren’t assholes.

I am curious to see how the new bylaw is going to work, and how much it will actually be enforced.

Here in Victoria, listening to my clients, the law enforcement does not spend much time “enforcing” safety for these individuals. How can we expect citizens to have respect for the homeless, if our enforcement system does not. I clearly am not stating this is appropriate behaviour at all, but unfortunatly a horrible reality. I get so sick of listening that the homeless have a “choice”, about 80% of the homeless suffer from a mental illness and cannot get stabilized on meds etc due to various reasons.

Wouldnt it be humane if everyone realized that these individuals are someones, mother, father, sister, brother, daugter, son ect, and show a little bit more compassion. I am a strong believer that on any given day, it could happen to any one of us. Is it really that impossible to show a little respect and flash a simple smile and a hello??

Oh and kudos to Casey for his friendly hello the man sitting on the stairs…..If only humans were that non-judgemental.

I’m not too sure about the idea of having special laws to protect the homeless. By creating a special category for protecting homeless people, a precedent is set that opens up pathways for special laws for every group with a certain characteristic. For instance, this could extend to cab drivers in the future. They are often faced with abuse late at night from the bar-hoppers. I am using this as only one example, but as you can possibly imagine the list continues. There are many groups of people with extenuating circumstances that make them more likely to become the victim of crime.

Instead of creating a new set of laws that will deter people from targeting the homeless, wouldn’t it make more sense to have the existing laws enforced. One option to try and curb the violence towards homeless people would be to apply more man power to these types of cases. By giving more priority to these cases, more of them would be solved. This would send that message that they are cracking down on crime against the homeless, and possibly curb the violence. However, I realize that there is a thing called a budget, and if there is no room…or people don’t want to find room…then this will not happen.

A second thing that the law enforcement of Vancouver could do is make themselves more approachable. From the talk that I hear of on the forums, I have come to the conclusion that overall the homeless people cannot count on the VPD for resolution of their problems. (Please correct me if I am wrong) However for the time being, this is creating a communication gap between the people of the street, and the local law enforcement. Since the homeless do not feel safe going to the police, then the police do not get the required information that they need to proceed on the case. It may even be the case that some people come forward with their stories and are ignored. By stopping this, a stronger relation can be formed, and conditions should improve for the homeless.

On the note of there always being homeless people, I would have to say that in the current mindset of society, this is a reality. I, as hopefully the rest of the world, would like to be able to say that in the future we will all live in harmony, there will be no hunger, no war, no poverty, and no homelessness. However, this isn’t a reality, and as much as I wish I could use my Jedi powers to eliminate all of the worlds problems, it just isn’t going to happen. But, if we all band together in an effort to make a difference, our combined Jedi strength may be great enough to reduce some of the aforementioned problems.

So on that bombshell, keep practicing your Jedi mind tricks.

I’m torn on this issue. Attacking a homeless person has to be one of the most disgusting crimes imaginable– even if there’s no physical injury, harassment and destruction of what little property they possess has to be the lowest of the low. But on the other hand… as other posters have remarked, creating a special category for the crime sits a little strangely with me.

I mean, if a group of drunk idiots decide to beat up a homeless person on the way out of a bar, or they decide to beat me up on the way out of a bar, is one worse than the other? We both have an equal right NOT to be attacked or injured.

I guess I think they should be afforded the same rights and protection as anyone else. If that seems not to be the case– if they appear to be more of a target due to their circumstance, or appropriate action isn’t taken against their attackers– that says more about the (lack of) enforcement of current laws than the need for new ones.

We have a responsibility to protect the most vulnerable in our society. Is this the way to do it? I’m not sure.

Quoting vika:

As far as the strange new bylaw, every person is already protected by laws that are supposed to be enforced, so in effect, homeless are discriminated against by the very forces that supposed to protect all citizens.

Exactly. How does creation of a law to protect the “special category” of homeless individuals differ from the laws already on the book to protect the “special categories” of gender, pigmentation, ancestry, sexual orientation, etc? Like those other laws to protect people from discrimination, there shouldn’t be a need for their existence, but there is. It’s all disgusting.

That there is even a need for such a law is despicable. 10 years ago they called Canada’s homeless woes an epidemic. There has still yet to be concrete long-term funding for the myriad of proposed projects and opportunities proposed countrywide for solutions which would both affect Canada federally yet be tailor-made for each city. I have always been concerned with the short-term, low financal obligation mantras of both provincial and federal goverments.

off topic….the past two editions of the local paper here (Rmd) have had front page stories on the homeless here. Our only 10 bed shelter is full, sending some to sleep in tree hollows in the snow (no word of a lie). God awful.

There isn’t anything at all for women/children, with the exception of a transition house.

Why not! I work as a counsellor for at-risk youth, and homeless youth in Grande Prairie, Alberta of all places. It’s funny, because people don’t think homelessness can exist in such a wealthy place, and it’s the opposite…the money is the problem. And then there’s drugs and more drugs and the fact that marijuana is harder to obtain than crack.

Homeless youth are faced with struggles, such as abuse theft all the time. But also, in my work I noticed some youth( not all) are the ones stealing, and causing this discomfort.

There is probably a very different fine line between youth and adult. Some things are the same, homelessness, addictions, mental health issues, health issues, but they are still people, and deserve rights.

http://www.sunrisehouse.ca

You know many years ago I was in New York, and there were these two homeless guys sitting on a stoop and they were very friendly - not in a creepy way. Just guys who dug through garbage for food and were asking for money. I was really poor at the time, and I told them I didn’t have any (which was true). So they told me to sit with them, and we could all beg for money together. I will never forget that afternoon. You get a whole different view of the world sitting down on the pavement. Some people were nice and gave us money, others were sure I was a junkie and didn’t give us anything. But there was a lot of abuse to be had as well. People sneering, saying horrible things, stupid teenagers throwing quarters at us or the guy in a $800 suit saying “GET A JOB!” Talking to these guys, I can understand why they didn’t have jobs. Some of us are so fortunate just to be employed. I know I was when I finally got a job. One of them lost his job, developped an alcohol problem and then was never in any condition to get another job, and the other one was a vet and disabled so no one would give him a job. Anyway, the attitude towards the homeless is just disgusting in most places. I didn’t make much money that day, but I sure learned a lot about life on a stoop near the gutter. I wondered, if people were so verbally horrible during the day, what were they like at night when there was no one watching and they came out of a bar reeking of alcohol?

But I think the big question, that you put at the end of your post is: Or does all of this just entrench the idea that we’ll always have homeless on the street, and there’s nothing we can do about it but protect them from being harassed?

Thats such a good question. And I have to admit, it wouldn’t have occured to me if you hadn’t said it, but thinking about it now it seems obvious. I guess I would ask if we cant do both?

Quoting hopeforchange:

I am a HUMAN being therefore I am the same as everyone else and I am deserving of respect until I do something to not warrant it.

I think the “until I do something to not warrant it” clause is dangerous because what qualifies as extreme enough to take away your right to basic respect? If you don’t show respect to others? If you commit a crime? If you commit a violent crime? To some, the homeless are “lazy” and useless and that in itself is enough to not warrant respect.

It’s got to be an all-or-nothing thing, I think– you’re human, you qualify (well, I’d like animals thrown in there as well)– regardless of what I think of you personally.

Its not “reasonable” to pass a law that protects something that is not enforced by the law to begin with. Its technically illegal to be homeless in many senses. In Toronto your not allowed to panhandle. Your not allowed to use bus shelters as shelters if you are homelss. Your not supposed to loiter on city property like sidewalks. You can’t be blocking off the sidewalk either, yet people have their sleeping bags and other knick knacks strewn about everywhere. I saw 5 police officers on bikes go to one elderly homeless lady in a bus shelter at the corner of Bay and King and give her a ticket. Basically for being homeless and being in a bus shelter. No way in hell she’s going to/can pay it off. No way the law will enforce it unless they run by her address at the cardboard and newspaper makeshift shelter at the back of some alleyway. Before being able to protect something that by law should not exist, there needs to be something done to first of all regulate, PROPERLY help, and overall overshadow what the hell is really going on and the reasons behind so many homeless people. Start at both ends of the source and the outcome and work your way in. Whether it be compinsation for people losing their jobs due to injury or proper managment for peoples with dissabilities, and then ” protection” and better facilities to treat and cater to the homeless. For fuck sakes (And I use that term loosly), get someone to take a damn good look at the living conditions and problems that these people face and then start to try and help them. Putting up laws to protect someone that isn’t even seen as a person just gives everyone an excuse to yell back and forth at eachother.

Quoting hopeforchange:

Well if I insult someone without warrant.. I am not at all deserving of respect.. and expect to be treated in that fashion.. If I conduct myself with disrespect then it goes without saying.. I dont really deserve it. Im old school like that.

So if a homeless person insults someone (because, let’s face it, it DOES happen) or screams obscenities or generally acts in a way that society disapproves of, does that mean he or she does not still deserve respect?

Quoting k-e-t:

Quoting hopeforchange:

Well if I insult someone without warrant.. I am not at all deserving of respect.. and expect to be treated in that fashion.. If I conduct myself with disrespect then it goes without saying.. I dont really deserve it. Im old school like that.

So if a homeless person insults someone (because, let’s face it, it DOES happen) or screams obscenities or generally acts in a way that society disapproves of, does that mean he or she does not still deserve respect?

I am speaking of myself. If I act like that.. then I deserve how I am treated.. This is no way a attempt, on my part, to try to turn this into a attack on the worth a human being.

If a “homeless person” were to insult me, then I would simply keep walking.. its not my place to judge them.. What if they are unstable? Which is the case in some circumstances..

The point of my post was and will always be: Humans are beings that are deserving of respect.. and its a sin that we have to create laws to protect ourselves from ourselves.. because we forgot how to respect each other as HUMAN BEINGs..and its behooving of some to read words for what they are and not for what they are not.

Why not just walk away and go home? We all have options… and I dont think anyone here would do that…at least I hope not.. ack what a thought

Quoting sotiredithurts:

I tend to think that the idea of a hate crime is somewhat ridiculous, the penalty for beating someone up shouldn’t be contingent on whether that person is a minority or not, it should be a crime regardless.

A mugger who wants a couple bucks doesn’t resort to the same degree of violence as a person who assaults a certain profile out of hate. A crime motivated in self-defence is not punished identically as the same crime motivated by hatred of a profile type. Motive speaks clearly as to culpability.

Quoting sotiredithurts:

Also if a lot of the violence is the result of hobo Joe getting into a fight with freight car Bill over a shopping cart filled with recyclable cans, then putting either of them in jail isn’t going to solve much.

It might keep them out of the cold and harm’s way for awhile. Frankly, “Loss Prevention Officers” and well-off drunks are more likely to present a severe and ongoing threat to the homeless than the homeless present to each other.

Quoting Alex Ross:

Maybe we would stop harassing them if they’d stop harassing us (and no, I do not actually harass the homeless).

Maybe “WE” should take the high road and offer compassion, empathy and solutions or, if nothing else, tolerance and acceptance. Ever stop to listen to a homeless person talk for awhile? Granted, sometimes it can be sad or even disturbing, but imagine what it’s like living in a world where no one listens, few notice if you disappear and even fewer give a damn.

Frankly, “WE” who feel strongly about getting the homeless off the street and out of “OUR” face need to stop snivelling about the problem and work toward solutions… like equitable access to housing and medical care, early intervention for children at risk… If solutions include trying out new laws that may or may not ultimately protect the homeless, it’s a move in the right direction — at the very least – it serves to raise awareness.

Hats off to you, Dave.