To be honest, I could probably go on for days about the betrayal of those in New Orleans that have been entirely screwed over by the government, be it local or federal, and the way in which they have been treated while simply attempting to enact their most basic of rights. But the truth is that it so sickens me that every time I attempt to address it I revert to employing expletives every other word. Thus, I will just quote Bill Quigley’s piece on Truthout from last Friday…
“In a remarkable symbol of the injustices of post-Katrina reconstruction, hundreds of people were locked out of a public New Orleans City Council meeting addressing demolition of 4,500 public housing apartments. Some were tasered, many pepper sprayed and a dozen arrested.
Outside the chambers, iron gates were chained and padlocked even before the scheduled start.
The scene looked like one of those countries on TV that is undergoing a people’s revolution - and the similarities were only beginning.
Dozens of uniformed police secured the gates and other entrances. Only developers and those with special permission from council members were allowed in - the rest were kept locked outside the gates. Despite dozens of open seats in the council chambers, pleas to be allowed in were ignored.
Chants of “Housing is a human right!” and “Let us in!” thundered through the concrete breezeway.
Public housing residents came and spoke out despite an intense campaign of intimidation. Residents were warned by phone that if they publicly opposed the demolitions they would lose all housing assistance. Residents opposed to the demolition had simple demands. If the authorities insisted on spending hundreds of millions to tear down hundreds of structurally sound buildings containing 4,500 public housing subsidized apartments, there should be a guarantee that every resident could return to a similarly subsidized apartment. Alternatively, the government should use the hundreds of millions to repair the apartments so people could come home. Neither alternative was acceptable to HUD. A plan of residents to partner with the AFL-CIO Housing Trust to save their homes was also ignored.
Outside, SWAT team members and police in riot gear and on horses began to arrive as rain started falling. Those locked out included public housing residents, a professor from Southern University, graduate students, the Episcopal bishop of Louisiana, ministers, lawyers, law students, homeless people who lived in tents across the street from City Hall, affordable housing allies from across the country and dozens of others.”
If that snippet wasn’t enough to enrage you, perhaps this will…
I don’t know about you, but the scenes in that video do not depict an event that one would attribute to a nation, or a portion thereof, that claims itself the foremost democracy on the planet. In fact, it looks more like the last ditch efforts of a few brave souls attempting to futilely counteract the beginnings of a neo-fascist trend that is becoming commonplace in the United States with regards to how the public is treated when it dares to represent itself in a dissenting fashion. And to think that the government of the United States feels it has the right to, by comparison to itself, condemn others.
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It’s really sad that New Orleans is still in such a state so long after Katrina. The government (both federal and locao) has totally failed the people of New Orleans. It also seems to be a case of the haves and have-nots. I think the local government there will have bigger issues to deal with if they go ahead with the demolition. What are they going to do with the many potentially homeless? The attitudes of the Council were not very encouraging. They really did not seem to care of be concerned. I think they all knew what they were going to decide.
This is not the US I grew up in….
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Pardon my language.. Its not common for me to let loose with a tirade of cuss words..
But that fucking made me sick to my gut.. I am damn right ashamed to be a American at this time. To know that these people lost everything.. its a sick state of affairs. Those people have every fucking right to be there. Sick bunch of god damned individuals ( and i am referring to the damned police and the council members ). Bastards, the whole lot of those asses. ( again council members and police.) How hard would it have been of them to sit and listen to what they had to say? To pass out some forms and let them address their neighborhoods future? It wouldn’t have taken much…the image of the one council member drinking the bottle of water is gonna stick with me. How many of those people out there have no clean drinking water still? Or a warm bed?
If those had been white people in a suburban area, then I can and would bet, that those doors would have been opened. The people in that video are just a small fraction of those who lost everything.. I saw pictures of what New Orleans looked like after the hurricane.. where bodies were still on the side of the road, and yes they were still there, days after the water had subsided. They watched their loved ones drown, their homes washed away.. and then to be pepper sprayed and beat upon? Thats fucking sick.. just down right sick.
I seriously feel disgusted..I need my meds and a good meditation session right now.
This is America.. there is no excuse for that behaviour.
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this reminded me of a quote.
“A government is the most dangerous threat to man’s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.”
Ayn Rand
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Well, Matt, as you’ve said before, in North America we don’t live in democracies, but rather plutocracies. The snippet and video are screaming evidence of that.
For a sense of the larger picture, people should read The Shock Doctrine.
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America is still the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Only difference is now that the few free men remaining own the land, and the brave are those who are no longer free, and will likely lose their homes along with their freedom.
It’s certainly moving that a nation that once held itself to be an exemplar to all those who struggled for freedom, democracy, and justice, could fall so far to become no better than the petty dictatorships we chastise daily.
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Wow, that is truly horrifying. Apparently the people affected by the housing plan have no right to have their voice heard. This is starting to look more and more like a police state, where if you don’t agree with the government, or if you want to exercise your right to free speech that isn’t what the people in power want to hear, they’ll just taser you.
I am sickened.
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Constitution? What Constitution?
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The rich need not respect the rights of any lesser individual. Human lives are for sale again, apparently.
What a deplorable state of affairs indeed.
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Quoting Eva:
No where in the Constitution does it mention that the Federal Government has the obligation to provide you with housing. It also does not have an obligation to feed you either. Nor provide medical benifits. It does not guarantee you happiness. Nor spiritual fulfillment. What the Constitution guarantees is the Right to be Left the Fuck alone.
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But it does give you the right to have your voice heard. These people weren’t even allowed in the building to say anything. They stood outside and protested, but much like Vietnam, no one was listening and no one cared. Let me rephrase. No one is listening, and no one cares. Thats the unfortunate part about all of this. Well its not the only unfortunate part, but its definitely one of them.
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Quoting Robert R:
Actually, the Constitution protects the right to public assembly and the right to employ public assembly to voice grievances.
That, I believe, was their point. Which would make their understanding of the Constitution obviously greater than yours.
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The government is “leaving no one the fuck alone” when it goes in and demolishes perfectly stable buildings that currently serve as shelters for people attempting to rebuild their lives after the hurricane so that developers can make a killing building new ones and charge people exorbitant prices (given the housing shortage in New Orleans, this is likely) to live there.
Taking action to increase the homeless population in New Orleans is interventionist on behalf of the developers. This amounts to corporate welfare for well-off developers when there are homeless individuals that need it more.
Corporations, contrary to popular belief, must also be “left the fuck alone” if individual persons are to be ignored in their time of need.
Governments should be guaranteeing that nobody can buy your home right out from under you and then demolish it at will.
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To watch the actions of the government and the police in that video makes me sick but for them, all is well when they punch out for the day and head to their comfortable homes!!!
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Quoting Matthew Good:
The right to voice grievences is a Federal Right, not a State Right, or a City right. Which means that the you could safely curse out New Orleans, La. but not the United States. Which would make my understanding of the Constitution greater than yours.
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Or you could just Rant against George Bush.
Or help people as I do.
I work at my local food bank. I help feed bums.
I help clothe Bums.
I give way, way more to charity than I pay to Federal Taxes.
I actually get my hands busy working, not just pounding the Keys of Protest……….
All those People locked out of that building have at hand, all they need to gain their rights. All they have to do is exercise their rights. Get Lawyers working.
And those buildings were condemned before the storm. I guarentee, if people are allowed back into that building, the first person who stubs a toe, sues the City Government.
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Actually Bob, its stipulations govern all aspects of government. If that were not the case, the Constitution would be meaningless in its application and States could opt out of Amendments, not to mention Articles entirely. The right to public assembly and the voicing of grievances is therefore a national right that exists at all levels and is protected under the 1st Amendment. To claim that that is not the case would therefore render the 1st Amendment moot in all cases that are not federal, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Find me a State that has not ratified the 1st Amendment and I’ll give you a prize.
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And spare me the ‘you’re a saviour’ routine. You have no idea what I do beyond posting on this website, the time I dedicate myself to various causes, so grow up.
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Stop being sarcastic and maybe ….
…and believe me, The Supreme Court of the United States will not be interested in the workings of the New Orleans City Council.
Healing is needed, not stirring up more hatred.
Local action is important. And here, as then, I was talking to the other posters, not just you.
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That video, this news has shocked me. I knew about the terrible abandonment and failure towards New Orleans by its government and the thought of it has consistently sickened me since the beginning. But this is an all new low.
Freedom of speech, of expression, of opinion is absolutely paramount. Constitution or not, in today’s world of modern people and modern discoveries, there should be nothing but respect for our fellow people. To deny another person their home, but not only that, to deny them the right to speak up for it is nothing less than grievous and unacceptable.
If anything, the number of people so stubbornly determined to be heard is encouraging. It is the response of those other people deemed “in power” (the politicians, the police) to those who may be considered lesser beings that reveals the deep sickness of our times. Keep the common folk in fear, strip from them their dignity and hope and they will not have the fight left in them for their most basic rights.
As far as I am concerned, housing is a right, listening to your home’s fate is a right and speaking up for that home is a right. And its a damn sure thing if we the people don’t fight tooth and nail for those rights, these frequent injustices will pick up speed until we are all utterly helpless for each other and for ourselves.
To think this moment in history was caught by a camera lens sprinkled with pepper spray. It is a sad mad world we live in.
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Just a question regarding invitations to the meeting…
Was there a procedure to follow to get an invitation to the meeting? Was this procedure adequately communicated to those who had a stake in the outcome of the decisions?
Would those residents purposes have been better served by having an advocate (or several advocates) represent them at the meeting?
The video is awful. It’s hard to watch. It does remind me, however of something posted earlier on this site with regards to individuals rights - something like “it’s ok to swing your arms around as long as you don’t hit anyone”.
If those who tried to enter that meeting had an opportunity to participate in another manner, other than noisily disrupting the proceedings, then they are infringing on the rights of those who were at the meeting.
If all this took place without any of the residents having any opportunity to speak at any time in the process, then it is indeed a tragedy.
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Robert R
I find what you say to be repulsive. You help “bums”. Someone who takes pride in themselves for helping “bums,” to make them feel more important on their pedestal, is surely someone looking for an ego boost, rather than looking for the good of all. I would like to call people on the lower scale of things “unfortunate, homeless, or otherwise.” I’m not trying to be politically correct, I just think the word “bums” is degrading and not only that, it forces me to question your intelligence.
No one on this planet signed a social contract to become part of the state. We are bound by no one to ensure we do our part in political obligation, therefore, it is part of the constitution that they do provide people with sound health care and housing and public “goods”, otherwise there is no need to oblige, because then, what is the state providing other than placing man back in the state of nature where it’s every man for themselves. Think about it. It’s called Political Philosophy and dates back to the times of Plato and Socrates. Actually, it’s where this idea of what you think IS democracy originated from.
In fact, it is your thinking Robert that has crippled society from making any headway in political decisions. These government systems that we rely on are nothing more than an “elective aristocracy,” where all that is asked of the citizen is that they recognize who is competent enough to make those decisions for them, but whatever it’s virtues you proclaim, it hardly matches the democratic ideal that political authority and obligation should rest in the hands of the people as a whole. And by god, it’s going to take a lot more than handing out clothes to “bums” and helping “bums” to alleviate that situation.
Another note about what you’ve said: Yes, it is aggravating to only be able to vent through blogs, and though it may seem that we don’t do anything but complain, I think it would be wise to never judge a book by its cover. I’m sure there are some that don’t do anything at all, and I’m sure there are others who do. Myself, your right. I don’t do that much. I write on blogs, I pass information along to the uninformed, and I write term papers on the philosophy mentioned above. I do not have time to save the world one step at a time, currently. But I am going to school, and I am taking the above mentioned classes, to eventually have a stab at changing things, because in this world you need the credentials to be taken seriously. And I think you’ll at least agree with that.
I don’t think your ideas are wrong, a lot of people would agree with you. But there are theories that defy what your saying that have been developed over centuries, and though I am a leftist so to speak, I still believe in the idea of democracy, but the government isn’t doing a thing to leave anybody the fuck alone, if there forcing them to pay taxes and participate in elections, and still not providing those same people with the basic necessities to live. That is like Medieval times, when the knights torched peoples homes for not paying double taxes, just because the tyrannical gov’t told them too, but provided nothing. And unless you enjoy regressing as a human, I would hope that you’d want to see some of these things progressing, not devaluing.
There is just not enough room to explain what I would like to say…but I hope you get the point.
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True, Adam.
But I was mostly talking to the other posters; who think that that Video is the “End of the World” or something. Instead of the local squabble it really is. You know, the Posters who say America Sucks, and we’re stupid, uncaring etc. There are 50 States, 350 million or so people; so how you can judge us all is beyond me. Talk about closed minds. On balance, the US is still the place to be, and the home of the free.
Just my opinion. But remember the homeless in your own town, and help feed and clothe them before you start in on the US.
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“I don’t think your ideas are wrong, a lot of people would agree with you. But there are theories that defy what your saying that have been developed over centuries, and though I am a leftist so to speak, I still believe in the idea of democracy, but the government isn’t doing a thing to leave anybody the fuck alone, if there forcing them to pay taxes and participate in elections, and still not providing those same people with the basic necessities to live.”
Becca:
Bingo!
We are in complete agreement. Neither one of us believes Governments do their Jobs
I come at the solutions as a Libertarian you, a so called lefty.
I believe Taxes should be cut and returned to the taxpayers. Who knows better than the locals where the money is needed?
Citizens should voluntarily take care of their fellow townspeople. If they don’t ; they don’t deserve a functioning town. People helping people; not villifying others simply because you disagree.
And I say bum with pride. Because I used to be a drunken one until Sept 21, 1998.
And despite what Matt says, (and you) I am not stupid.
Or repulsive.
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As for the actual issue:
Unfortunately the videos that Matt has posted lately, have all been rather disturbing. Another unfortunate thing is that I don’t see it improving any time soon. I just see a great divide spreading through the masses. And while all these things are happening around me, its hard to grasp how things can change without some kind of destruction happening first.
All of these people, all of these animals, all of these forests, everything is tired. It’s all inJustice. And it all has nothing to do with the actual people who are in it.
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I found what you said repulsive. Not you.
I used to be a Libertarian as well. But I realized that by going that route, communities and others would inadvertently recreate the state. Anyways…I feel your contradicting yourself, or perhaps I’m misreading you. Either way, people have the right to voice their opinions (Katrina and You).
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Well, I don’t think things are as bleak as you think they are. At any rate God bless, and try and keep the faith. Bob
I agree, feeding the hungary and homeless is not going to cure anything. Unless of course. you’re the homeless one. When Jesus spoke about ” Giving a man a fish a day feeds him etc….. but teach him etc.” is a fine idea; but I believe fer Christs sake someone has to feed him today!!!!!!!
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I guess it time I got my head out of the clouds and realized Oprah, Bono, nor Bob can save the world completely….
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This is a perfect example of how convoluting issues results in the dissolution of intelligent discourse.
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Quoting Robert R:
Robert, I’m not picking on your words for the sake of it, but it seems to me when armed police officers resort to pepper spray, tasers and tackling unarmed people (some obviously older or one with a cane) that is far more than a simple local squabble.
No, it’s not the “End of the World.” But it is the hint of what might come if such a blatant disregard for our fellow people’s welfare and rights is allowed to continue unnoticed and accepted.
Those people wanted to be heard and the act of denying them that right escalated this situation into violence. Because give an issue enough restriction and violence is inevitable. Us humans haven’t found an effective alternative yet to rendering others speechless. And that’s what those officers were attempting to do, whether they realized it or not.
But I believe no one should ever be forced into silence. There is a simple beauty in peaceful debate that is so often denied these days. And I don’t believe that’s an issue for any nation alone. I don’t believe it’s a strictly American thing. This is a world issue, with New Orleans being the community and government pushed under the microscope at this time.
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“This is a perfect example of how convoluting issues results in the dissolution of intelligent discourse.” - Matthew Good
Indeed. It’s perhaps the most important reason that nothing gets done, and it has stalled the progress of humanity somewhat. We make things more complex than they have to be, and it degenerates into petty squabbling. To help people in the wake of a disaster, for instance, they pretty much end up setting up a mini-corporation full of micro-bureaucracies, multifarious chains of command, and system upon system to deal with the problem. And we all know how well corporations work. Nope, the ones in charge simply don’t want to get their hands dirty actually getting things done - they just want their bottles of water, and to drink them in front of the homeless masses who haven’t had running water for two years. Oh yeah, and to put the relief effort on their resume of civic accomplishments when, really, they’ve accomplished absolutely nothing.
The ideal response would have been to enlist every single construction company in the state, and press them into rebuilding the city. The state should have provided planning, materials (confiscated if need be), and a basic living wage to the workers. Sure, all of those construction companies would have lost money and resources in the deal. They can make the money back, or make insurance claims for their losses, once the crisis is dealt with and the infrastructure of civil society rebuilt. Sometimes you have to disadvantage or even compromise commerce and economy to re-establish the basic necessities of order and civilization. Governments have proven themselves willing to hijack the entire economy of a nation to fuel war efforts in the past, why can they not do the same to fuel reconstruction?
Unfortunately, it appears that property rights trump human rights every time.
“No, it’s not the ‘End of the World’.” - zitadawn
Nope, just the beginning of that end. That end is in no way certain, but we see the occasional vision of what the future might hold, such as in this video, and it’s frightening.
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I think part of my issue with this whole thing (again with the “part of” but there are so many aspects that are disturbing I can only handle one at a time) is that George Bush has been on this evangelical crusade to spread democracy to the world, holding his nose so high its bleeding, touting America as the leader of the free world, while at home there are people being stifled. Why isnt everyone laughing at him? Why are people still following his lead? This is an example of how we are becoming a police state. But at the moment, we are just wearing the guise of democracy.
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Quoting jlouis:
Exactly. I fear this is only the beginning. Not to the end of the world but perhaps to the end of basic civility and respect for civilians by those deemed in power. Except the thing is, there is no one who has a voice who is without power. The trick is wielding that weapon of choice without fear of the tactics of any government, to face the danger of being heard.
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“democracy” doesn’t really exist. not in the ‘land of the free’ nor can it ever regions that the u.s. is trying to ‘democratize’ or ‘liberate’, etc… before trying to across seas, the problems at home, like in New Orleans, should be fixed…
i haven’t watched the mainstream news media (rarely do), but has these been broadcasted? i’m curious to know how they addressed/commented on this…
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Quoting Robert R:
If I am not mistaken, Federal Law supercedes state law.. so in this instance, where the people are really trying to get their voices heard-to only have the building locked before full, to chain the fence going into the building ( which is against fire laws ), to beat upon people who have not raised a hand in violence ( until it was brought down upon them ) are all clear violations of the Constitution-the very one that the government claims to hold oh so dear. The very one I was sworn to protect when I served in the US Army.
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Quoting Robert R:
As Matt said above, do not presume to know the goings on of others before you think that we are a having * I Hate America* love festival here. I served in the military, I have come from another country and I believe as a citizen of this country I have every right, as do the people in New Orleans, to voice their outrage at the way they have been treated during/after Katrina.
I can appriciate the fact that you help with the homeless, thats a noble cause-but forgive me for not giving you a cookie for it. I help as well. Many others do, we don’t do as some sort of leverage in a debate about human rights or for that matter FEDERAL rights that the forefathers said we have the right to. Its what America is all about. It is what seperates us from others. And when you see coucil meetings led by people who are obviously not one bit concerned about the people, its upsetting and very UNAmerican. And we have the right to call the others on it. Instead of just taking away the homes of these people, whethere they were condemed or not, why did they not try to find alternative housing solutions for them? Why? Well I have a really simple answer: They dont have to care. As long as they have warm beds to go home to, who cares about the man across the street who lost everything! They get their paychecks and roll in the BMW’s and drive up to their lovely homes and possiably sip that nice warm wine, and the man that they just pepper sprayed has to worry about the content of the garbage can or whether or not they are going to have a building to sleep in at night..
You having been a homeless person, whether that was self inflicted or not, should have some more sympathy for the ones who dont have choices, money or hope right now.
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well said.
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And to add to that. If the insurancies had not screwed so many out of the money that they were rightfully entitled to, then you wouldnt have people living in homeless shelters, abandoned building or on the streets. Another example of the Big Corporations picking on the so called “lesser man”.. Those people dont have the means to hire a attorny, who will charge the hell out of the client, to sue the insurance companies.
Its a double edge sword. We are the land of the free and the home of the brave.. Or in some situations Land of the Dollar and Home of the ones who sacrifice all, and get kicked out of their shelter.
Thats BS as far as I am concerned.
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I have to meander a moment here, Matt. So I do apologize.
But there should be no such word as Racism..
We are all humans.. and come from the Human Race, we are broken down into Ethnic groups.
YAY I am a lemming, well anyways.. There was no veil over my statement.. It was plan out there. If that area had been a different neighborhood, with a different wealth, I can guarentee you that they would have been allowed to come into that meeting regardless of full or not, and the video shows it to be NOT full, but I digress, then that outbreak would not have happened.. simple. There would have lawyers and anything money could buy to see that proposal cast aside.
And frankly, even if there were African Americans on that council, it wasnt their homes that was called to question.. it was the people who were outside that assembly who had the right to have their voices heard. And whats your excuse to the people who were inside and were beat upon, tazered, pepper sprayed etc? easy to pass along a issue as long as it doesnt effect you.
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After reading all of the comments, I can’t help but to have the following line pop into my head:
“Give me your tired, your poor…”
I had to google it to see where it came from. I knew it was related to the Statue of Liberty. It turns out to be a sonnet written by Emma Lazarus engraved on a plaque mounted inside the Statue of Liberty called The New Colossus.
I don’t know if this seemed off-topic, but anyway…
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Quoting hopeforchange:
Yeah, I can’t stand the Insurance companies either; but why are you blaming me!!??? :)
I just said the Federal Government doesn’t owe you a House!
Be Well, Bob
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“You are juxtaposing the catastrophe of Katrina, (and primarily the federal failures) with a local government entity trying to rebuild and revitalize a city.”
Good read Vegas. I suspected that most of the people screaming at the gates were from “Out of Town”, protesters; not citizens. But I didn’t want to “Speculate”.
It’s sad that so much half truth is now zipped around the Globe without any oversight.
The information that hundreds of low cost housing units are going unused should be made available. So, thanks for that.
A great even-sided news story.
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Read Vegas? “Truthout propagandists”? Ya, I’ll get right on that.
“Those people got what they deserved”. Tasered, pepper-sprayed. Awesome even-sidedness there in abuse, hey Bob?
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Quoting Matthew Good:
I’m sorry, Matthew, but what you are attempting to communicate is not getting through.
Perhaps if you drop the sarcasm and say what you mean to say to me, I would better understand you.
Are you somehow thinking that I approve of the violence on display? Are you calling me a racist?
When I said “Good read”, I was talking about the article linked by Vegas Vic. Why do you purposely attribute violent racist motives to my innocuos praise to someone elses post?
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Very true, I am not a resident of New Orleans. But that said, I do live in the poorest neighbourhood in my entire country, so do have some insight into such matters – and we haven’t even had to deal with a natural disaster.
What I am very familiar with is the Constitution, and have watched the degradation of its application closely over the last seven years. What took place at, and outside, that meeting should anger Americans in general for no other reason than the abuse of Constitutional rights.
But let’s back up to the basics first. Before anything is discussed, I recommend you read Naomi Klein’s ‘The Shock Doctrine’, focusing on the portion of it that deals with the rise of disaster capitalism. In the aftermath of Katrina, the poor of New Orleans have taken a backseat to an overwhelmingly ambitious development lobby that has money to throw around. In the wake of the disaster came opportunity for those that have no real concern for the people of that city as a whole, only the profit that they can make by securing property and development deals. It is, in fact, a global trend in those areas that have been impacted by disasters.
The last article that you linked included the following…
“But the target of 3,343 public housing units in New Orleans is a flashpoint because it represents a drop of about one-third from the 5,100 units occupied before Hurricane Katrina in 2005.”
Lastly, I am appalled at generalizations regarding the poor. “Look at her big screen”, “these non-working freeloaders”. What if the women that you’re using as an example has medical reasons for unemployment? In truth, there could be a virtual cornucopia of reasons. But let’s not let that detract from the assumption that poor people, especially those that need assistance, are freeloaders. You have friends in New Orleans remember, but all of them are “to their credit” not residents of public housing.
I have no idea if you have ever been faced with living in poverty. I have, so I can, in fact, comment on it from my “couch in Vancouver”. Do not let my current profession or success lead you to make assumptions regarding my past, nor my understanding of what it’s like to require assistance. Because I have required it, and seen the system from the inside in all of its demoralizing grandeur.
As for not understanding the realities of a multi-cultural city, I live in one in which the Asian population is greater than that of the Caucasian population. There is also a vast Indian population as well, all of it playing a part in making this city what it is, and has been for well over a century. Vancouver is known for its vast diversities, and is, for the most part, open to them. But that does not mean that racial tensions do not exist here, or that they are not exhibited.
All of that said, if you are a journalist, please divulge whom it is that you work for if you wouldn’t mind. I would assume that an actual journalist would be aware that Truthout is an aggregate website that largely syndicates articles from a multitude of different sources with, on occasion, the rare article penned by one of its own, not unlike Common Dreams. That being the case, given your previous comment regarding Bill Quigley’s integrity, I would assume that you work for an outlet of far greater reputation and significance. Given your tone, I’m going to guess that it’s probably conservatively based, which would be why you like to throw around the term “balanced” amongst other nonsense. That’s just a guess, mind you.
As a journalist, would you consider Robert Fisk to be balanced? Because compared to you, he is easily one of the most respected journalists on the planet. For that matter, what about Greg Palast or Jim Lobe?
As for poverty-rights activists being in attendance, are you suggesting that they had no right to be there? And if you think their inclusion “pathetic” because they showed up to voice their concerns regarding something that they believe is unjust, does that not, by comparison, make the march on Washington, for example, a joke? How about any number of civil rights marches that took place in the south that attracted thousands from the north?
The reality, whether you like it or not, is that as activists, those individuals had every right to be there to lend their support and voices. I’ll not deny that, at times, certain individuals can go too far, but so do the authorities. And let’s not forget that they locked that gate before it was grabbed and pulled at by those outside. After the council meeting was cleared of those that were complaining that people outside weren’t being let in, and that there was space to accommodate them, why was the issue turned into one that forced the public into a corner? Why was it one that was dealt with by tasers and pepper spray rather than one dealt with through the allowance of the people to voice their grievances without restriction? Ultimately, that is the question that should be answered. That, in essence, was the entire point of this entry.
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First, he’s a law professor at Loyola University and one of the preeminent members of group that is representing the displaced – so yes, I do know who he is. He also posts on The Smirking Chimp blog, where a great deal of information can be found as well.
With regards to videos and police abuses, this isn’t the first time it’s happened, and to downplay its severity because you feel only one side of it is shown is ridiculous. Care to comment on what happened at the Petraeus hearing? Or, for that matter, that couple that were hauled out of a crowd on the 4th because they were wearing home made shirts with BUSH on them in red circles with lines through his name? No charges; just held and released. They’ve taken legal action, of course, and so they should. These are but a handful of examples.
I didn’t cherry pick a video; I posted a video that was posted on YouTube. If you have other video evidence, provide it. Had it not been for “cherry picked” video, what happened recently at Vancouver Airport would never have come to light, so I fail to see how it’s irrelevant.
The fact that you are attempting to make this a debate about my views on all police officers is about as telling as the fact that you claim to be a journalist but don’t have the balls to say where it is that you work.
By Vancouver’s ‘Indian’ population, I was referring to individuals that come from ‘India’. If you were thinking I was referring to First Nations Peoples, you were mistaken.
As for Vancouver’s Lower Eastside being the poorest neighbourhood in the country, one in which I actually live, and you deriding me about knowing nothing about New Orleans, a place that you have only visited, your remarks are, at best, embarrassing.
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Wow I find that opinion just as disturbing as the whole situation.
They got what they deserved? Seriously the hair on the back of my neck just stood up.
I don’t even know what to say, which rarely happens. I’m just so deeply appalled with your point of view. At this point I shouldn’t be surprised anymore with the blatant indifference of others but you’ve taken me by surprise with that one.
I understand the video above is just a portion of the story in its entirety. I realize that I do not know about each and every aspect of this situation. But what I do know is what I saw. And I’m damn sure the pepper spray, the tasers, the tackling, the shouting, the pulling on the gate, the protesting was not some elaborate prank.
You say police officers are intended to uphold the peace. I agree, and I am grateful for those people who are willing to do the job because I am not.
But from my perspective I saw no emphasis on peace from the armed officers who deployed their weapons. What would they have done if they had no tasers? They do have guns as an option. Sure one could say that would never happen, a gun would never be used so rashly and heedlessly by a police officer assigned to crowd control. But there was a time not long ago when I thought the same things about tasers.
It’s all emotion and theory what I’m saying and I don’t care. But do you have any causes you would protest Vegas Vic? I do. And so do you in this forum. Who’s to say your behaviour would not be deemed “moronic” by the officers assigned to watching over you? What then do you deserve?
It’s all about perspective.
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Vegas Vic: It’s funny, but most of what you tend to post seems overly repulsive, if not downright one sided and shallow. Your supposidly fair and balanced little articles bring little extra light to the situation, and considering the underhanded way that a great deal of the public housing is disappearing in this impoverished city due to back door deals, your bias is a little disturbing.
Also, as a side note. You state in your little diatribe that this is barely a story in the US. Thats fine. I just watched a video where a bunch of Americans couldn’t name a country that began with U…including the United States, so perhaps such things are more of a reflection of a failing public school system than anything else.
And put away your tired grand standing about how tough the jobs of the police are, and how they are the thin veil that keeps our morally weakened society one step away from anarchy and bum rape. I served my time in the military, i have two officers in my family, and once my business is rolling am going to join myself, so yes…being an officer is a shitty job. But it is also a job that requires the highest moral standards, as well as self control and professionalism. The police, like the government, are an arm of the people. Those people outside the gates had the right - the RIGHT - to speak at that city council meeting. Denying them that basic right is as bad as Matt says. Why? Because the police are there to stop crime, to enforce the law - not deny citizens their right in a free country. Simply put, those gates should not have been shut - perhaps when all of the seats in the city council chambers were full then the gates could be closed - but there were empty seats. More after some people had been arrested. And with the pepper spray, and random tasering, we see how things really are in New Orleans. And just because you have a few friends that live in the city, but the nice side, does not mean shit, really. I have friends who grew up in some of the wealthiest areas in India, only feet away from grinding poverty, and it took them years to realize it was there. Without a seeking mind, if your friends are ignorant twats in other words, then it does not matter one fuck stick if your friends live in the same city. Or if you have travelled there. I sure as hell bet you didn’t go off to see how the other side lives, so keep your logical falacies to a minimum before you discredit your argument too much further.
Robert R: Simply stating that you help bums at the shelter shows how little you understand what you are doing, if you are, in truth, even doing it.
I don’t like to think of Matt’s site as an echo chamber, so opposing views are always welcome (i have in fact been on the opposing side a number of times, prime example one being the taser incident in the airport), but both of your comments lack any internal logic, and seem to be mostly unfiltered ranting. And this is not the only subject that this has occured.
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I know that this will be stuck in moderation due to the link.. but its a really good video of the HANO meeting in New Orleans..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXJLzS4__BM&feature=related
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That is a good video.
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“Robert R: Simply stating that you help bums at the shelter shows how little you understand what you are doing, if you are, in truth, even doing it.”
Dale……. Please don’t insinuate I am a liar. Can you please post once without calling people names?
I’m a recovering alcoholic, sober for nine years, so when I call people “bums” it is a term of endearment, not derision. We all call each other that. It keeps it real.
Have a nice Day………Robert
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The last bastion of someone without an argument - delete and censor, which you haven’t been.
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What ground you, Vegas VIc, did have was lost in your inability to have a grown and logical discussion without resorting to 2 year old tactics.
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Well to all those who dont understand.. that need proof. Here is another video of what the people are fighting.
This broke my heart.. This is the point of having a freedom to express oneself.. in a free government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuQv4eAsvGE&feature=related
there is one thing that I noticed that was absolutely deplorable.. the need to chain the fences to the gates to the homes to the housing projects.. homes that are in good condition and have peoples clothing, still on the hanger, their belonging which are being kept from them.. then take a look at the homes of the *upper class* homes that are completely destroyed, which appear to be open to go into. These people have the right to go home.. not to have their homes ripped apart.. its a sin. It just seems to be people exploiting the less fortunate..
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I wonder how many Florida residents are still in the substandard FEMA trailer villages from a couple years ago…and I wonder if they, too, would “barely” qualify as news-worthy.
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It really is a sin. I dont see the point of having the ability to peacefully protest what you feel to be a violation of your basic right as a American., to only arrest them, to beat upon them like they are wild animals..etc. Then to take their homes when they lost so much.. that goes to anyone who is a victim of those circumstances..
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Wow, you continue to surprise me.
You have no idea who I am or why I am, and clearly you don’t really care. I’ll lose no sleep over that.
You speak of my intellectual level, yet in the same response you request a picture of my boobs so you can judge their awesome-ness. Oh yeah.
I spoke about my boobs in another thread of an entirely different atmosphere. I am not a one sided person. I can not be angry and opinionated and brooding all the time and for you to think that I am not somehow entitles you to questioning my intellect, well Vegas Vic, it reveals more about you than it does about me.
I did not attack you personally in anyway. I expressed my dismay with your opinion, I recognized what I wrote was pure emotion and I voiced that my view and yours were due to our own individual perspectives.
So what the fuck do you have to be so defensive about?
Perhaps I actually struck a chord and forced you to think beyond what is so clearly comfortable to you. That you are right, you are superior, and everyone who does something you deem inappropriate should be attacked physically or mentally or intellectually.
That point of view, your demeanor, your plan of attack.
Good luck with that.
Because you have not upset me nor have you insulted me. I know who I am, and I don’t know who you think you are assuming for one second you do.
All you’ve managed to do is make me pity you.
Even over this impersonal resource you come off so very very angry. That is not a nice place to be in.
And seriously Avril, lip gloss, etc. Really? Were you that desperate to affect me? Because you actually made me laugh.
I’m 22, have had the same job as a veterinary assistant for 8 years, purchased my own home through hard work and strict saving with no help from anyone else, and have never once talked about lip gloss.
I prefer Blistex actually, and I’m pretty sure the label says something about raising my intellectual level to that of a journalist.
Peace be with you Vegas Vic.