I agree completely.

In actual fact, many of these so-called advances in technology have been around for years (electric car, anyone?), but they choose to support what, ultimately, will make them more profit in the long run. I’m not just “picking on” oil companies either, as it’s really anyone that has been consumed by greed who is looking for a way to ease their public conscience. Bill Gates, for example, could feed an entire third world country from starvation if he really wanted to, but instead he chooses select charities such as his university fund for students who, as it turns out, would be using his own Microsoft products.

Yes, there is more to it then that, but as long as there are people dying of starvation on a daily basis, there should be no reason why we should have any sympathy for ANYONE making huge profits, be it oil companies, WalMart, Disney, McDonald’s, Bill Gates, or whichever greedy corporate bastard you’d like to add to the list. There are a million variables we COULD debate for months, BUT all that really needs to be said is that there should never be BILLIONAIRES in the world as long as people die every day from a lack of basic necessities.

I still don’t think that you’ve separated the oil companies from any other business to a degree where you could call them greedy without lumping many other companies or industries in with them. Businesses exist to make a profit, and oil companies are no different than Wal-Mart, Nestle, or Disney (three of the biggest on the planet). They see an opportunity to provide for a consumer’s need, and then do so and charge for their provision. There is scarcely a company that is 100% “clean” in the sense that they couldn’t be tied to global warming or some other scandal in their entirety.

The Canadian forest industry regularly cuts down millions of trees each year, which in its own way is harming the environment and polluting at the same time. (Those chainsaws they use and the heavy machinery brought in to logging sites pollute many times more than your average autombile). And their tree planting, while an attempt, takes nearly 20 years to “renew” to the point where the forest is back to at least a semblance of what it was originally. The mining industry harms the environment in much the same way; there are literally thousands of businesses that are not much different than oil companies in the polluting/harming the environment sense.

It’s true, the product that the oil companies provide for consumers does contribute to global warming more than any other consumer good, but I didn’t see any recognition of the fact the these businesses are also some of the heaviest investors in renewable energy. Chevron is the world’s largest producer of geothermal energy (the cheapest renewable available at this time) in the world; Exxon Mobil contributed $100 million to research at Stanford, including a project to get CHEAP solar power in the market; BP invests in solar, wind, and hydrogen projects to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. I didn’t hear any investment projects from the BC Gov’t announced in yesterday’s budget . . .

I wholeheartedly agree with you - we can’t just throw in the towel; we should remain positive. Heck, at least we have the technology (albeit expensive) to turn sunlight into energy! That’s an amazing feat if you stop to think about it! But ragging on oil companies to no end is not a way to stay positive and win the climate-change war. As mentioned in posts above, if oil companies shut down operations tomorrow, the world would be in chaos - literally. The way I like to stay positive is to get behind the people that are making a difference. Support research that makes alternative and truly renewable energy sources (like solar) cheap and easily accessable. Like you say, support companies that aren’t polluting or harming the environment, when you can. Press government to invest in these technologies rather than taxing the crap out of poor people who don’t a have a choice other than to use less green technologies, because they’re cheaper.

Thoughts?

I don’t know how you can think oil companies aren’t greedy. There has been so many books and documentaries on how corrupt they are. For example;
“According to Environmental Defense, the excavation of the oil sands is, itself, producing enormous amount of greenhouse gasses. The process is also poisoning local water supplies. Of course, and not surprising in the least, output is projected to grow to a level that, by 2015, will see 3 million barrels of oil produced a day.”

Shell has been using resouces in Africa and taking up the land that the local fisherman use to fish. They don’t hire locals either.

ExxonMobil has spent $16 million, between 1998 and 2005, towards 43 advocacy organizations which dispute the impact of global warming.The union of the concerned Scientists say;
“ExxonMobil used disinformation tactics similar to those used by the tobacco industry in its denials of the link between lung cancer and smoking, saying that the company used many of the same organizations and personnel to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue. ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Mobil#Human_rights gives many more examples of the corruptions.
Esso has been a huge financial influence in the USA’s decision not to be part of the Kyoto Protocol. Esso denies climate change is a real problem and it doesn’t invest a single cent in renewable energy.

You tell me that isn’t greed.

Every person on the planet pollutes in some way, big or small. If certain businesses are trying to reduce green house gases and pollution, then power to ‘em. At least they’re doing something rather then nothing.
There are solar panels that convert sunlight to electricity, unfortunately though, it’s damn expensive. If alternate forms of energy were mass produced they would be cheeper. As long as the public has a demand for them, more envormentaly friendly things will be made. As daunting as it seems to try at times, giving up makes us feel much worse. You’ve got to look real hard on the good thhings in this world that come from humanity and try not to let corporations take it away. I hope people will try not to give up on nature because we need it as much as the other critters do!

Even the cleaner technologies that people like to trumpet aren’t totally clean. Electricity comes from somewhere, right? If you trace the wires back through your outlet, I’m sure that you’ll see the source of the power isn’t so green. Hydro power may be renewable, but it isn’t without its harmful effects on fisheries and other local wildlife. Electricity produced by coal pours tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere. The manufacture of solar mirrors requires energy and processes that typically use massive amounts of fossil fuels.

I believe that if we want to use cleaner technologies to help the environment and ensure a positive future for our children and grandchildren, (and I would like to do that!), the answer isn’t boycotting oil companies and fossil fuels, or complaining about the marred landscape of Fort MacMurray or high housing prices. I believe the best solution we can pursue is to make the green technologies cheap so that they can become commonplace; so that everyone has a chance to access them. Rather than spend a billion dollars enforcing CO2 cuts, let’s spend a billion dollars figuring out a way to make CHEAP solar power readily available to the public. Let’s figure out how to get wind power hooked up to the existing power grids so that we can take some of the load off of our coal-fired power plants.

And you know, you’re right: oil companies will adapt. They are currently adapting, and are some of the largest investors in green projects in the world. They don’t want dead polar bears on their hands - it’s bad for business. But what is good for business is people purchasing something they need (power), which you can regenerate time and time again.

Until we get these cheap technologies, let’s continue to do what we can to decrease our reliance on oil, let’s make the small steps to reduce our carbon emissions and footprints, but let’s push our elected representatives to take the route of research & development so we can get the technology sooner - not a simple tax on CO2.

I walk to work, recycle, heat my home with electic heat and buy from a local farm market. Not everything I do is enviromentaly friendly but it’s better then doing nothing at all. I don’t buy oil and It saves a fortune.
;-) [/quote]

Yeah but you talked about “stickin it to the man” in your earlier post as if the destruction of the oil industry would benefit everyone and screw over those producing oil, and this just isnt the case, since oil is so intrinsically connected to every facet of day-to-day life, it would most likely just screw over everyone else.[/quote]

You’re absolutely right. Oil companies wouldn’t suffer they would just change for the better.
I just think that if alternative energy was used to run day-to-day life, then the economy wouldn’t suffer. Neither would the eco system. New jobs would be created. I don’t think bringing back the electric car is impossible.
Ok I suppose People working in the oil industry wouldn’t be very happy if a bunch of new age hippies came to shut the mother down and stick it to the man. That’s just silly. You can never win against the goverment or corporations anyway, so why bother protesting right? Keeping the oil industry is a big step towards screwing everyone in the long run. I’m only young and I want to look forward to a bright future not a polluted one.

Listen up, ’so-tired-it-hurts’ You should get some sleep. :-)

I walk to work, recycle, heat my home with electic heat and buy from a local farm market. Not everything I do is enviromentaly friendly but it’s better then doing nothing at all. I don’t buy oil and It saves a fortune.
;-) [/quote]

Yeah but you talked about “stickin it to the man” in your earlier post as if the destruction of the oil industry would benefit everyone and screw over those producing oil, and this just isnt the case, since oil is so intrinsically connected to every facet of day-to-day life, it would most likely just screw over everyone else.

Of course it would happen, how could it not happen? everything is reliant on oil, so if its supply is drastically reduced you will have a drastic increase in prices, a loss of jobs, a market crash, etc; its happened in the past, and is just common sense. Its not “these people” its everyone, everyone uses oil, and im sorry to say, water, garbage, and french fry grease isnt the answer.
Also how does processing the oil sands(or oil mining in general) equal a depletion of all natural resources?[/quote]

“You know, it’s interesting how easy it is to forget that this planet has finite resources, and that the longer we abuse it the more assured our own demise as a species becomes. Of course, there are those that will argue until their dying breath that that isn’t the case, that we couldn’t possibly consume so much of this planet’s resources as to actually cause our own extinction. Then again, the last two times the world went to war we exclaimed after each - never again - and look how that’s turned out.

According to Environmental Defense, the excavation of the oil sands is, itself, producing enormous amount of greenhouse gasses. The process is also poisoning local water supplies. Of course, and not surprising in the least, output is projected to grow to a level that, by 2015, will see 3 million barrels of oil produced a day.”

Well sure the market has crashed and people lose there jobs and shit but it’s happened in the past and people survived. I’m not saying oil is responsible for the depletion of all natural resources but it does do a lot of damage. Oil mining destroys natural habitats. Everything runs on oil, yes, but if oil companies decided to buy up more natural ways to do things then we wouldn’t be breathing carbon monoxide while walking beside the highway. Cancer and asthma wouldn’t be at an all time high.

I walk to work, recycle, heat my home with electic heat and buy from a local farm market. Not everything I do is enviromentaly friendly but it’s better then doing nothing at all. I don’t buy oil and It saves a fortune. ;-)

Of course it would happen, how could it not happen? everything is reliant on oil, so if its supply is drastically reduced you will have a drastic increase in prices, a loss of jobs, a market crash, etc; its happened in the past, and is just common sense. Its not “these people” its everyone, everyone uses oil, and im sorry to say, water, garbage, and french fry grease isnt the answer.
Also how does processing the oil sands(or oil mining in general) equal a depletion of all natural resources?

“the man” has us by the balls? wtf are you talking about? If you spontaneously shut down the processing of the oil sands today what do you think would happen? would “the man” get what he deserves? or would you see a gigantic market crash, thousands of people lose their jobs, have the price of crude oil spike through the roof, which would consequently cause inflation increasing the price of anything even moderately associated with oil(which is everything by the way). Of course you would save the environment and “the man” would really get whats coming to him.[/quote]

Ok that so wouldn’t happen. They would just turn to something else more profitable. Engines can run on many things. Electricity, water, solar power, garbage, french fry grease etc. If oil became less of an option because people stopped buying it and what not, oil companies would just evolve to survive. These people aren’t stupid, they’re just greedy. They know how to survive when times change. It’s up to the people to want change to happen. Am I sounding too optimistic or something? Even if the economy suffered a little it doesn’t mean the human population would die out. A little hardship won’t kill us but a depletion of all natural resorces will. Ah well. The next generations won’t mind if everything is gone.

“Only after the last tree has been cut down.
Only after the last river has been poisoned.
Only after the last fish has been caught.
Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”

fits this post.

“the man” has us by the balls? wtf are you talking about? If you spontaneously shut down the processing of the oil sands today what do you think would happen? would “the man” get what he deserves? or would you see a gigantic market crash, thousands of people lose their jobs, have the price of crude oil spike through the roof, which would consequently cause inflation increasing the price of anything even moderately associated with oil(which is everything by the way). Of course you would save the environment and “the man” would really get whats coming to him.

“What distinguishes human beings from the rest of the animal kingdom is foresight, the ability to look ahead, to recognize dangers and opportunities and by acting in the present, to avoid the hazards and to exploit the opportunities in the future. No other animal has that ability, and it has been the key to our explosive growth and dominance of the planet.

When those in business and government continue to deliberately ignore the best scientific advice warning us of the need to act, they are committing us to a path that will have catastrophic consequences for our children and grandchildren.

I believe this is an intergenerational crime.

We need to push our leaders – push them hard and hold them accountable.”

I mean, you have polls that clearly show that the number one issue concerning Canadians is the environment– it even tops health care, which, as we all know, is saying a lot. But does that mean anything? Nah. Our government can’t even be bothered to develop a cohesive environmental policy.

The trouble with pessimism like this is that it creates a sort of apathy– you are convinced nothing will ever change, so why bother doing anything? There’s got to be some sort of hope to spark people into action.