The 100 Plane PsyOp
June 22, 2008, Matthew Good The New York Times recently learned from US officials that the Israeli military conducted an exercise over the Eastern Mediterranean involving more than 100 aircraft. The purpose? To firm up target packages were Israel to preemptively strike Iranian nuclear facilities. Of course, were they to actually preemptively attack Iran it would, as the IAEA’s Mohamed ElBaradei recently stated, most likely lead to the Iranians implementing a crash program in an attempt to acquire a nuclear deterrent as quickly as possible. Obviously the Israelis, most likely back by US satellite intelligence, feel confident that they would completely wipe out Iran’s ability to do so. Unfortunately, it’s the sort of gamble that may very well produce dire consequences for the region as a whole.
Given that US officials furnished the New York Times with the details of the Israeli exercise, I am of the opinion that the United States is employing the Israelis in this business by using them to represent the military reality of what could happen if Iran refuses to cease all nuclear activities. Thus, an Israeli military exercise may very well represent a very dangerous negotiating tool, the consequences of which, I believe, will produce the opposite results than those ultimately desired.
There is, of course, the possibility that Israel acted completely on its own and without American input, but I think that highly unlikely. No matter, the fact that the exercise was carried out and then publicized indicates that it wasn’t merely a military exercise, but a PsyOp as well.
This little symbol lets you @ another comment
something about iran and israel
makes me think of a tarantula and scorpion
trapped in a bottle.
or a mongoose and a cobra…
either way, not good.
vincent, in buffalo
Former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton on Fox News: Israel Will Attack Iran After U.S. Election But Before Inauguration, Arab States Will Be ‘Delighted’
‘I think if they [Israel] are to do anything, the most likely period is after our elections and before the inauguration of the next President. I don’t think they will do anything before our election because they don’t want to affect it.’
Bolton then concluded that Arab states would be excited if the U.S. or Israel attacked Iran:
‘I don’t think you’d hear the Arab states say this publicly, but they would be delighted if the United States or Israel destroyed the Iranian nuclear weapons capability.’
It all makes me sick. I feel hopless in a hopefull time.
I don’t think the region could handle that. Israel does that, adn they are going to get retaliation, major in fact.
World War III, anybody?
off topic, but George Carlin just died :( :( :(
From Herald Tribune:
“Any Israeli attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities would confront a number of challenges. Many American experts say they believe that such an attack could delay but not eliminate Iran’s nuclear program. Much of the program’s infrastructure is buried under earth and concrete and installed in long tunnels or hallways, making precise targeting difficult. There is also concern that not all of the facilities have been detected. To inflict maximum damage, multiple attacks might be necessary, which many analysts say is beyond Israel’s ability at this time.”
I do think that this was an Israeli exercise without involvement of the US. But, if they were to actually attack any facilities (like they did long time ago in Iraq and more recently in Syria) they will require help - from the US - and the US will suffer greatly from retaliation since they have weary and tired forces stationed all over Iraq…
And, to finish on a finer note, think of the price of OIL!!!
I don’t think Israel will strike Iran. I think it was more muscle flexing and banter put forth to try and scare Iran. I truly believe in today’s world that a world war (what ever that means anymore) would find to many roadblocks. WWI & II was in an era when countries were more independent economically. Being a global economy everyone stands to lose too much nowadays. Israel needs a wake up call as they are being a little too pushy with many enemies in that region. Like Hamas needs more fuel for their fire.
[quote comment="56287"]Former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton on Fox News: Israel Will Attack Iran After U.S. Election But Before Inauguration, Arab States Will Be ‘Delighted’
‘I think if they [Israel] are to do anything, the most likely period is after our elections and before the inauguration of the next President. I don’t think they will do anything before our election because they don’t want to affect it.’
Bolton then concluded that Arab states would be excited if the U.S. or Israel attacked Iran:
‘I don’t think you’d hear the Arab states say this publicly, but they would be delighted if the United States or Israel destroyed the Iranian nuclear weapons capability.’[/quote]
That would be like saying Canada would be delighted if Iran attacked the U.S. They just can’t help but try to justify stupidity no matter how idiotic it makes them all look. It just seems harder and harder to quell the outrage at what is going on in the world right now. If Obama wins in the fall and he doesn’t launch an investigation into the dirty dealings of the previous administration then he is just as guilty as the rest of them. Can we please stop this insanity before one of these fucking worthless pieces of shit destroy the world in the name of “democracy”. FUCK!!!!
[quote comment="56300"]off topic, but George Carlin just died :( :( :([/quote]
George Carlin:
“Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.”
Talk about a double standard.
Israel is one of the few nations in the world that hasn’t signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and remains highly evasive about its own nuclear weapons programs. It almost certainly has nukes and would use them in an all out war in the region.
While Iran has engaged in uranium enrichment it still gives much greater access to international observers than Israel ever has. Israeli citizens have been locked up for years for even talking about the nuclear weapons program there.
There are some that feel Christian fundamentalists both in the White House and Pentagon and also Jewish fundamentalists are focused on bringing about a religious war that they feel has been fore ordained (see Armageddon). While I think it’s more likely there’s just high level incompetnece at work in both the US and Israel, an Israeli attack on Iran could trigger a larger conflict in the region that could potentially become global.
We already know what a screwup Bush and his people are and the same for Olmert, I’ll breathe a lot easier when they no longer control large military forces.
Israel must do what they need to to survive.
Everyone in the middle east is pulling for Israel because nobody wants Iran to have nukes.
We can only hope an attack is as successful as Israels strike against Iraqs nuclear reactor, with no retaliation.
[quote comment="56340"]Israel must do what they need to to survive.
Everyone in the middle east is pulling for Israel because nobody wants Iran to have nukes.
We can only hope an attack is as successful as Israels strike against Iraqs nuclear reactor, with no retaliation.[/quote]
Everyone, or just some western backed governments afraid of losing power?
[quote comment="56340"]Israel must do what they need to to survive.
Everyone in the middle east is pulling for Israel because nobody wants Iran to have nukes.
We can only hope an attack is as successful as Israels strike against Iraqs nuclear reactor, with no retaliation.[/quote]
Are you kidding??? What color is the sky in your world?
Doug,
I agree with you. But we live in that western society, and enjoy our freedoms, with those western backed governments. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have faith in western civilization and the culture, and hope that eventually the world will see it the same way.
greg b66,
I mean this in the least agressive way possible, what would you like to see happen with this situation?
[quote comment="56356"]Doug,
I agree with you. But we live in that western society, and enjoy our freedoms, with those western backed governments. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have faith in western civilization and the culture, and hope that eventually the world will see it the same way.[/quote]
I don’t see anything superior in western society besides our technological advantage and that is rapidly dissappearing.
If Israeli is going to survive it needs to take a new approach to dealing with its neighbours and opponents.
Somebody else contributed this:
… That is an absolutely remarkable assertion by John Bolton. Let me get this strait:
1) America and Israel must strike Iran before they strike us;
2) Iran wouldn’t dare strike back because they are afraid of retaliation.
So, by John Bolton’s own logic, why bother striking at all?
[quote comment="56357"][quote comment="56356"]Doug,
I agree with you. But we live in that western society, and enjoy our freedoms, with those western backed governments. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have faith in western civilization and the culture, and hope that eventually the world will see it the same way.[/quote]
I don’t see anything superior in western society besides our technological advantage and that is rapidly dissappearing.
If Israeli is going to survive it needs to take a new approach to dealing with its neighbours and opponents.[/quote]
Ok. How do you deal with Hamas, the Palestinian leadership in Gaza and the West bank, when they deny Israel’s right to exist? How can you even speak to them? They launch missiles into cities in Israel from homes, and then Israel need to respond by trying to target these militants.
How do you deal with Lebanon, a country in a power struggle of the terrorist organization Hezbollah?Hezbollah is an Iran funded militant group, who also believe in the destruction of Israel, and deny its right to exist.
They have peace with egypt and jordan, and a very successful peace at that.
Then there is Iran. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has claimed that he wants Israel wiped off the map, a debated statement due to the translation. Regardless, he is a known anti-semite who calls for the disintegration of the Israeli government. He also held “International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust”, where he invited promenent holocaust deniers and an ex- Klu Klux Klan representative to speak. He has nearly reached nuclear capabilities and yet people still look at Israel as the bad guy.
How do you deal with your neighbours when they all want you dead?
Good catch, RRC. There you have it, the neocons and the Israelis know full well that their line that they need to attack Iran is bullshit.
[quote comment="56356"]Doug,
greg b66,
I mean this in the least agressive way possible, what would you like to see happen with this situation?[/quote]
WHAT SITUATION? There has been no proof to support the accusation that Iran has been or intends to develop nuclear weapons. How short of a memory could you possibly have? Your president(and I’m assuming you are American because no other human beings on this planet could be as brain washed as the American public) falsely accused Iraq of the same thing and there is tons of proof to suggest that he knowingly mislead the American people in that regard.
People like you scare me. The faith of the entire world rests on the hands of the voting American public and to know that there are those who continue to listen to and believe the media and your government, makes me feel that we are all doomed.
Please try to pull your head out of your ass before it’s too late! The world has it’s fingers crossed that you do.
[quote comment="56351"][quote comment="56340"]Israel must do what they need to to survive.
Everyone in the middle east is pulling for Israel because nobody wants Iran to have nukes.
We can only hope an attack is as successful as Israels strike against Iraqs nuclear reactor, with no retaliation.[/quote]
Are you kidding??? What color is the sky in your world?[/quote]
Greg and Doug,
Both of you, for some reason or another, do not understand the problems in the middle east. So why are you commenting on them?
[quote comment="56367"][quote comment="56357"][quote comment="56356"]
Ok. How do you deal with Hamas, the Palestinian leadership in Gaza and the West bank, when they deny Israel’s right to exist? How can you even speak to them? They launch missiles into cities in Israel from homes, and then Israel need to respond by trying to target these militants.[/quote]
The first step would be to stop building new settlements, there’s no way the Palestinians are going to take any peace initiatives seriously as long as Israel continues to expand into lands occupied since 1967. Unless Israel is going to resort to some sort of final solution for the Palestinians (which I don’t believe in the slightest) they’re going to have to talk with the Palestinians, sooner is better than later.
And there is and has been violence on both sides, how many Palestinians have been killed from Israeli military strikes?
[quote]How do you deal with Lebanon, a country in a power struggle of the terrorist organization Hezbollah?Hezbollah is an Iran funded militant group, who also believe in the destruction of Israel, and deny its right to exist.[/quote]
How about making it a international neutral zone and get all foreign powers out of there including the US, Israel and Iran. The Lebanese deserve peace as much as anyone on the planet.
[quote]They have peace with egypt and jordan, and a very successful peace at that.
Then there is Iran. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has claimed that he wants Israel wiped off the map, a debated statement due to the translation. Regardless, he is a known anti-semite who calls for the disintegration of the Israeli government. He also held “International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust”, where he invited promenent holocaust deniers and an ex- Klu Klux Klan representative to speak. He has nearly reached nuclear capabilities and yet people still look at Israel as the bad guy.
How do you deal with your neighbours when they all want you dead?[/quote]
Maybe if the US and European powers would stop messing with Middle Eastern states things wouldn’t be as chaotic in the region. The US with British backing overthrew the legal government of Iran more than fifty years ago, leading eventually to the present confrontationt. US actions have killed many more Iranians than the other way around.
As for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, he wouldn’t have the support he has if not for the immoral and illegal actions being taking in neighbouring Iraq by the nation that claims to be standing up for freedom and justice in the world.
[quote comment="56403"Greg and Doug,
Both of you, for some reason or another, do not understand the problems in the middle east. So why are you commenting on them?[/quote]
Pretty broad statement. Please, enlighten me.
[quote comment="56403"][quote comment="56351"][quote comment="56340"]
Greg and Doug,
Both of you, for some reason or another, do not understand the problems in the middle east. So why are you commenting on them?[/quote]
I doubt anyone fully understands the problems of the MIddle East. It’s a nexus of religious, political, cultural and economic forces.
What I do understand is all conflicts end eventually ands it makes more sense for everyone involved to talk instead of fight.
[quote comment="56413"]
I doubt anyone fully understands the problems of the MIddle East. It’s a nexus of religious, political, cultural and economic forces.
What I do understand is all conflicts end eventually ands it makes more sense for everyone involved to talk instead of fight.[/quote]
That is brilliant! Best reason yet for the US and any other foreign forces to get out of the region - they do not speak the language!
As far as Iran - I did not know about this - “House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, in a letter to President Bush on May 8, threatened to open impeachment proceedings if Bush attacked Iran. The letter is a signal that planning for strikes on Iran is under way and pronounced.” Full article, The Iran Trap, is by Chris Hedges, he has a lot of experience in Middle East http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080608_the_iran_trap/
[quote comment="56423"][quote comment="56413"]
That is brilliant! Best reason yet for the US and any other foreign forces to get out of the region - they do not speak the language!
As far as Iran - I did not know about this - “House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, in a letter to President Bush on May 8, threatened to open impeachment proceedings if Bush attacked Iran. The letter is a signal that planning for strikes on Iran is under way and pronounced.” Full article, The Iran Trap, is by Chris Hedges, he has a lot of experience in Middle East http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080608_the_iran_trap//quote
They don’t need to get out of the region, how about respecting the human rights and freedoms they pay so much lip service to even if it means decreased oil revenues and control in the region?
Bush wants to go into iran for a lot of reasons.
1. The complete mess he’s made out of Iraq has put Iran in the drivers seat there, Ahmadinejad gets the red carpet treatment in downtown Bahgdad and Bush has to land in the dead of night at a highly secured airbase. Iran has more influence over the local Iraq militias in the south than the Iraqi government. As long as Iran is still a player the US will never secure control of Iraq.
2. Payback for embarassing the US in 1979.
3. Oil. The tensions caused by the war in Iraq and the freefall of the US dollar have helped pump the price of oil to levels industry analysts could have dreamed of a few years ago. Think how much more oil will be worth when another major producer in the Gulf is under attack.
The Middle East isn’t really complex after all from a certain perspective, greed plays a very important role there and the majority of the population (on all sides) is caught in the crossfire.
[quote comment="56467"]
They don’t need to get out of the region, how about respecting the human rights and freedoms they pay so much lip service to even if it means decreased oil revenues and control in the region?
Bush wants to go into iran for a lot of reasons.
1. The complete mess he’s made out of Iraq has put Iran in the drivers seat there, Ahmadinejad gets the red carpet treatment in downtown Bahgdad and Bush has to land in the dead of night at a highly secured airbase. Iran has more influence over the local Iraq militias in the south than the Iraqi government. As long as Iran is still a player the US will never secure control of Iraq.
2. Payback for embarassing the US in 1979.
3. Oil. The tensions caused by the war in Iraq and the freefall of the US dollar have helped pump the price of oil to levels industry analysts could have dreamed of a few years ago. Think how much more oil will be worth when another major producer in the Gulf is under attack.
The Middle East isn’t really complex after all from a certain perspective, greed plays a very important role there and the majority of the population (on all sides) is caught in the crossfire.[/quote]
Nothing is complex once you know firmly what your perspective is. Truth is easy (but may be hard to swallow), bullshit makes everything difficult. It is insane that US made Iran the main player in Iraq (point #1) through their own actions - and, just like you stated, the population is in the crossfire. The main question for me is, does the US government now what their perspective is at the moment? If they were to attack Iran, would it be a joint operation with Israel to stop the nuclear programs or would it be an operation to help bring stability to Iraq and secure the borders? Or would it all be for oil?
[quote comment="56403"][quote comment="56351"][quote comment="56340"]Israel must do what they need to to survive.
Everyone in the middle east is pulling for Israel because nobody wants Iran to have nukes.
We can only hope an attack is as successful as Israels strike against Iraqs nuclear reactor, with no retaliation.[/quote]
Are you kidding??? What color is the sky in your world?[/quote]
Greg and Doug,
Both of you, for some reason or another, do not understand the problems in the middle east. So why are you commenting on them?[/quote]
Zeezul, I appreciate the support, but I truely believe that anyone who claims to understand the problems in the middle east, does not understand. It is an impossible situation to understand. It is like complex math problem, except it has no solution, there are too many variables.
Doug, I agree with you in some aspects and disagree in others. I agree that Israel should stop building settlements in Jerusalem near the west bank, that I believe is an attempt to push the future borders of the eventual two-state solution. I disagree however, that foreign powers are in Lebanon? You mentioned the US, Israel and Iran I believe. That is untrue. The US is not in Lebanon, and Israel pulled out after the failiure/success of the 2nd lebanese war. Even Iran is not represented entirely in Lebanon, whereas Hezbollah, their funded militia group is attempting to seize power. You claimed that they deserve peace, and I agree. But their issues are civil, yet indirectly threaten Israel.
Im not sure about your Mahmoud Ahmadinejad comments. This guy is sort of crazy. I mean he funds Hezbollah to do what exactly?
Greg, I am a Canadian, but I’m not going to make the assumption you are as you incorrectly labeled me an American. I am Jewish and fully support Israel. Ignorance would bring people to immediately call in to question my intelligence and the censorship I have been brought up with but I assure you, that I try to educate myself on every side of this conflict. I support the palestinians in their attempt to develop a state, but its hard for Israel to negotiate with their leadership (hamas) that does not believe in Israels right to exist. Fatah should be in charge, because Hamas’ focus is the destruction of Israel rather than the construction of a Palestine. I question Israels actions constantly, which I fully encourage the critisicm. You however are not a critic, but a misguided person who is not educated in middle eastern politics.
So greg, when you say, “Please try to pull your head out of your ass before it’s too late! The world has it’s fingers crossed that you do,” I feel bad for you, because you will never open up your mind and look at things objectively, and its like arguing with a baby.
“The main question for me is, does the US government now what their perspective is at the moment? If they were to attack Iran, would it be a joint operation with Israel to stop the nuclear programs or would it be an operation to help bring stability to Iraq and secure the borders? Or would it all be for oil?”
For me it’s, ” How can anyone believe anything coming out of official Washington after the fabricated case for invading and occupying Iraq?”
Probably over a million people have died there in the violence of the last five years and millions more are refugees. I truly don’t care what reasons are given for attacking Iran, they lied to us once and created one of the largest humanitarian crises in the world, what reason is there to trust the Bush adminstration again.
And yes I think it’s all about oil. About taking control of the huge Gulf reserves and creating tensions in the market to artificially inflate the price.
[quote comment="56524"]
For me it’s, ” How can anyone believe anything coming out of official Washington after the fabricated case for invading and occupying Iraq?”
.[/quote]
Sadly it is not a question for me anymore… But coming back to Iraq, there was an interesting comment in one article I read on NIE on Iran - the officials were claiming that since the report on WMD in Iraq was false then this one must be false by default, hence Iran has nuclear capability and must be taken care of a.s.a.p
Chadpodo,
That is was a very measured response. There is another side from which the Palestine-Israeli conflict can be viewed - Hamas have to “destroy” Israel before they can create a unified Palestine, after all Israel is on its historic territory. It will have to be absorbed into the renewed Palestinian state. I think US made a huge mistake by not accepting Hamas as the governing body - they were chosen by the people through elections- if they did, some things could have been avoided.
[quote comment="56503"][quote comment="56403"][quote comment="56351"][quote comment="56340"]
Greg, I am a Canadian, but I’m not going to make the assumption you are as you incorrectly labeled me an American. I am Jewish and fully support Israel. Ignorance would bring people to immediately call in to question my intelligence and the censorship I have been brought up with but I assure you, that I try to educate myself on every side of this conflict. I support the palestinians in their attempt to develop a state, but its hard for Israel to negotiate with their leadership (hamas) that does not believe in Israels right to exist. Fatah should be in charge, because Hamas’ focus is the destruction of Israel rather than the construction of a Palestine. I question Israels actions constantly, which I fully encourage the critisicm. You however are not a critic, but a misguided person who is not educated in middle eastern politics.
So greg, when you say, “Please try to pull your head out of your ass before it’s too late! The world has it’s fingers crossed that you do,” I feel bad for you, because you will never open up your mind and look at things objectively, and its like arguing with a baby.[/quote]
I inccorectly labelled you as American. I believe that you being Jewish makes you entirely biased and therefore I feel it was an honest mistake. You labelled me as misguided and not educated in middle eastern politics. I have no doubt that you would now add anti-semitic to that label. Whatever.
My opinion and the information that I have written is backed by fact and despite my name calling, I at least have that, unlike yourself.
There is no proof that Iran has or is developing nukes. Fact.
Hamas was democratically elected and because they don’t wear ties and are willing to fight for what belongs to them, that makes them terrorist and not recognized by Israel and the U.S. Fact.
Do you think that maybe they deny Israels right to exist because they are sick and tired of watching there people die at the hands of the Israeli army? And before you throw in the usual rhetoric about Israel defending itself, check the ratio of deaths and casualties between Palestinians and Israelis. At what point does the cloak of defending oneself become outright murder?
You can go ahead and be arrogant and call me a baby until the cows come home but people are dying and if I have no patience for idiotic comments that completely ignore that fact and even try to justify it then I’m ok with that.
Go preach your “poor Israel is so hard done by” crap until your lungs bleed. I would think that it must be getting harder and harder to find anyone who’ll listen.
One more thing chadpodo:
“Fatah should be in charge, because Hamas’ focus is the distruction of Israel rather than the construction of Palestine”. So, in other words, democracy is awesome unless it doesn’t conform to Israeli and U.S. political agendas and provide them with a puppet regime, that they can manipulate, in a foreign country?? That’s fucked dude!!
And you have the balls to criticize me.
Greg,
there is a counter-arguement to the ratio of Palestinian deaths than Israelis. The first, is the fact that CNN gets there information from Gaza from Palestinain sources, and often they inflate that number. So that is a theory, and lets just say that its not true for objectivities sake. They launch these missiles, from Gaza to cities like Sderot and Ashkelon from any location they see fit. They launch them from the roofs of homes and backyards, etc. Now Israel need to retaliate and order a strike on the militant launching the missile. How is it possible to take out one man when he is in a home with his family? do you suggest leaving him be. I hope you are currently following the politics, because then you would know of the 6 month truce that was just violated almost a week after creating it. By Hamas. If you are unaware check http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/24/gaza.truce/index.html. I dont believe you are anti-semetic, because that is unfair. I believe you picked a side and you arent looking at the other side. Once again, I believe in the Palestinian state, and the 2 state solution.
“There is no proof that Iran has or is developing nukes. Fact.” Maybe that is a fact to us, but the MOSAD arent stupid, and if they know something we dont, then I would watch what I say. So lets say for objectivity they arent building nukes. They are still a world power who want Israel destroyed. Due to that fact, war is inevitable.
Vika,
I understand your point. But it is in Israels best interest to create a Palestinian state and they know that. You should read The Case For Israel by Alan Dershowitz, the first couple pages are about why the 2 state solution is the only solution. Find out information on I believe the Saudi Arabian President at the time of Camp David, he was a mediator, and said that Yassir Arafat is the reason for the Palestinian struggles because Ehud Barack offered an unbelievable deal and Yassir Arafat rejected. The Saudi President said that any pain or suffering inflicted on the Palestinians, is Arafat’s fault.
Chadporo,
I agree that Camp David was a failure due to Arafat - he was in fact offered most of the territories back on condition that Israel is allowed to “clean up” Palestinian terrorist infrastructure (don’t ask me how they were planning to do this) before gradual withdrawal. Arafat wanted for them to pull out completely and leave the “clean up” process up to the Palestinian authorities. I can appreciate that no clear headed person will ever agree to that. You can look at it as a question of trust, but there is no such possibility in that region.
However, if Israel really wanted to clear Gaza of terrorists, they could take greater measures than shooting down people with a ratio of 1 militant to x number of civilians. They will not stop the rockets by doing their short excursions - it will just infuriate people further. They have an excellent army, they could organize a short term invasion into Gaza, establishing military curfew for a period of time, completing an organized military sweep of every house in the area until they get all their known militants. Meanwhile they can try and appease the population by providing regular people who just want to live with easier access to their job sites, food and health care. But, of course, from what I know of individuals, some hate each other for no reason so murder and rape will prevail unless army commanders are able to contain their subordinates, which they never seem to be willing to do…
And yes, it has to be a two state solution
Chadpodo,
Apologies for misspelling your name. D and R are ever so close on the keyboard :)
Do you honestly think I get my information from CNN? I see you do though. Go to youtube and watch gaza:the killing zone-israel/palestine. I’m sure you’ll have all kinds of excuses about that as well and you’ll still sit there and say that it’s just retaliation and it’s justified. It’s so rediculous for you to accuse me of taking sides because if you weren’t taking sides, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The fact is that it’s far more likely that you would be one sided because of the fact that you are Jewish and I mean no disrespect in saying that. The fact that you get your info from CNN doesn’t help either.
Israel has illegal nukes. That is undeniable. Iran does not.
If war is inevitable it is because Israel continually provokes Iran.
The MOSSAD is an Israeli government agency. Are you honestly saying that they can be trusted? The IAEA, on the other hand, is an international agency and is organized through the U.N. Which one do you think I’m going to believe? Iran has issued a communication to the IAEA titled:”Islamic Republic of Iran’s proposed package for constructive negotiation”. I suggest you read it. Of course you’ll probably chalk it up to those shady Iranians trying to deceive the world.
I am in very good company when it comes to my views of Israel including Noam Chomsky who himself is Jewish. He’s probably misguided and uneducated in middle eastern politics as well. Israel is the target of over 65 U.N. resolutions that involve there dealings with the Palestinians. Look at the vast majority of the comments posted on this entry. How many of them support your opinion? Are we all stupid?
I’m done with this nonsense. Think what you want. I really don’t care. If there is a war with Iran, I guess we’ll know then who was right. I hope to God you are but I know, without any doubt in my mind, that you are not.
Oh well, what’s a few million more Muslim lives. As long as Israel can come out of things with everybody agreeing that they have a right to exist.
So long as discussions remain amicable, debate is warranted given the topic. Just keep in mind the nature of this forum and that we don’t need digressions into ad hominem attacks or spit fighting.
Dale, I was just about to write something of the kind - once an individual resorts to name-calling, they are off tracks…
I thought I’d leave this thread by plagiarizing Saint-Exupery instead:
A conversation between enemy soldiers on night patrol across a no-man’s land:
“Antonio! What are you fighting for?”
…the truncated message, the secret mutilated by five seconds of travel across the valley as an inscription in stone is defaced by the passing of the centuries:
“…Spain!”
And then I heard:
“…You?”
He got his answer. I heard the great reply as it was flung fourth into space:
“The bread of our brothers.”
And then the amazing:
“Good night, friend!”
And the response from the other side of the world:
“Good night, friend!”
And silence.
…Under the guise of different words, both had proclaimed the same truths, yet this was not to preclude their dying together.
If I’ve crossed the line, I am truly sorry. It is not my intention to disrespect this site or any individual. The subject is one that tends to create strong emotions given the fact that it involves human lives. Having had it pointed out to me, I give you my word that I will be more conscious of my reactions.
I do not feel I’ve crossed any lines despite calling someone a baby. I have presented logical arguements (arguement is a key word, implying that they are open for debate and by no means right) and tried to have a meaningful discussion about an important topic in today’s world to expand my knowledge and take from other peoples opinions. It is hard to do so when your speaking to an agressively natured person, but I still believe that I have learned enough from Greg to approach the next situation more carefully. I hope that he feels the same way.
Im also 17. ;)
I do and I apologize. I can only tell you that I do have my reasons for feeling the way that I do. Having said that, it doesn’t give me the right to attack someone the way I did. Maybe we can agree to disagree. You are right, you didn’t cross any lines, I did.
You presented yourself in a very respectfull way. The fact that you are 17 makes it that much more impressive and encouraging to know that someone your age, can stand for what you believe in and back it with an argument. I am sincere about everything I am saying, regardless of your age.
I hope I didn’t discourage you in any way. I know you don’t know me but I can tell you honestly, I meant no harm.
Ya its ok, I enjoyed it and it encouraged me more. Thank you.