Tired Old Man

I can only hope this is a new song :)

Fuck God is right.

Matt, are you alright? People usually don’t say what you wrote unless something very tragic has happened to them or something has really made you sick to your stomach.

I hope you are OK!

profound.

damn it.

Then the guitars go…bang……..bang………bang…..

as an agnostic- I’ve always been facinated with how such a large group can selectivly forget that “the word” is a random interpetation.
Very well written and cheeky. Love it.

Bit on the harsh side, Tipper Gore will not be happy :-)

[quote comment="57259"]What’s an “agnostic”, anyways? Is that not just a fancy way of saying that I’m sitting on the fence?

I don’t think I fully understand the term.[/quote]
Agnostics beleive that we will never fully know if a god exists or not.

I wrote something similar in my own journal recently, the whole Fuck God thing. Mine was triggered by a friend getting an abortion. But I had a paragraph revolving around a statement I wrote about myself, ‘I’m not religious’ a statement that I hate to use. So I went on about why I hated it and ended with something along the lines of not caring if there was a God, that worrying about such things running our lives is not what’s important. What’s important is life itself and how we choose to live it.

I will add that I’ve often wondered if life would be easier if I was able to hold that kind of faith in something, something like religion.

Bang on. That’s such a brave expression, Matt. Nowhere is there more hypocracy than in the Church.
xx

“Man makes god so god can make man
Man makes the devil so that he can understand
Why it is that every day everything always turns out this way”

^^ by far one of my favourite lines. as well quite fitting for this post I believe.

[quote comment="57275"]Bang on. That’s such a brave expression, Matt. Nowhere is there more hypocracy than in the Church.
xx[/quote]

Sorry what? Brave?hypocrisy? you realize you could get imprisoned or stoned to death in some Islamic countries for being gay. You realize countries like Saudi Arabia dont even let women drive a car, let alone vote. Of course making statements like “fuck Allah” might be considered intolerant, while “fuck God” is perfectly acceptable. Damn those Christians and their theologically accurate opposition to same sex marriage.

Humans, …..trying to interpret gods will and doing a miserable job. I think god meant this, .. yes, yes, and so it shall be, for it is his word.

[quote comment="57281"][quote comment="57275"]Bang on. That’s such a brave expression, Matt. Nowhere is there more hypocracy than in the Church.
xx[/quote]

Sorry what? Brave?hypocrisy? you realize you could get imprisoned or stoned to death in some Islamic countries for being gay. You realize countries like Saudi Arabia dont even let women drive a car, let alone vote. Of course making statements like “fuck Allah” might be considered intolerant, while “fuck God” is perfectly acceptable. Damn those Christians and their theologically accurate opposition to same sex marriage.[/quote]
My point being, that, in some circles of the church, it has been “OK” to turn a blind eye to, say, child abuse, yet same sex relationships are not tolerated.

God is the cause and the Devil is his lobbyist.

i have always been partial to the sayings “Don’t pray in my school and I won’t think in your church”, as well as “Militant Agnostic: I don’t know and you don’t either” (both of which happen to be bumper stickers on my truck! lmfao)

Religion is a touchy subject to many, whether you believe in it or not; and I find it’s difficult to learn about either side of the belief spectrum without being somewhat bias…

I am agnostic, but that doesnt mean I’m an idiot. Organized religion is the oldest form of government, in my mind, and though I have never been a fan of government, politics in general interests me to no end, and therefore, so does religion…

Just wanted to say a couple of things here.
First……I took my 2 kids aged 14 and 11 to see your show in Nanaimo last night. It was their first live concert. I wanted to show them that there was more to music than screaming into the mike which I’m sure you can imagine they are accustomed to. I chose you for the task. You often hear people say, “they don’t make music like that anymore,” when they hear an old song. You dispell that myth.
Second……I’m 37 years old, was seperated then subsequently divorced a couple of years ago. I remember lying in bed sobbing and wondering why is this happening to me. I now know why…because she wasn’t the one. I’ve since met another woman who is someone who makes me feel alive. I know that’s cliche, but somebody once told me that even in the bible it says somewhere that God has to completely tear you down before he can build you up again. My gramps used to tell me before he passed on, ” get busy living or get busy dying!!” He also used to say, “if it walks like a sheep and talks like a sheep, it ain’t a fuckin duck.” I sorta get that one now, I imagine you do too.
Anways, thanks for the help with the kids and sorry for the shitty rendition of happy birthday
Good luck (no pun intended)

lol pat…

I’m not opposed to the prose. I think it’s honest and heartfelt. I’m down with that. I think we’re all entitled to our own opinion.

*****
Maybe I’m “too Canadian”. Maybe I should say things like “People who aren’t religious are stupid” and “Agnostics don’t use their brains”.

I know a lot of people are “anti-religion”. That’s ok. I think if all I had ever seen were BIG catholic churches and the like, I might be anti-religious too. (Went to Notre Dame Cathedral recently. It made me very sad.)

But I don’t go to a big church. I go to a small church, and it’s filled with people who care for each other and try to make a difference in the lives of the people are them.

And then people say that we’re hypocrites. Even though they’ve never met us. They say that I’m a hypocrite, but they’ve never asked me what I believe. It makes me sad.

I’m still not going to call people out because they believe something different from me. It’s their choice to make and they’re entitled. I think God cares about them, so I’m going to try and care about them. But I’m not going to slur them.

Maybe I’m too Canadian.

As one who holds a bachelor’s degree in theology, I am supposedly someone who understands these things in a monotheistic context, but even I sometimes wonder when God will blurt out “The Aristocrats!” and put a stop to the whole mess.

“Can omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change His future mind?”

Just an excerpt from “The God Delusion”, which I believe everyone around the globe should read at least once.

I am still of the opinion that this would make an awesome 2 1/2 - 3 minute song - strong guitar - the voice I am so used to hearing - I can hear it now.

One can always dream :)

Peace

Religion also devalues life.

When you’re expecting eternal bliss, it’s a lot easier to sit around on your ass and not do anything with your life.

Or, as that misogynist crazy ass apostle Paul put it, Christians are among “the most to pitied.”

[quote comment="57369"]People should stop blaming other people for everything that goes on in the world and see how they themselves contribute to the worlds problems, then start from there.[/quote]

Sadly, people are way too self absorbed to even take a moment to come up with a thought like that. Hey, that could cost them…cha ching…

I enjoy it when people who are strong in their beliefs, fail to see the hypocrisy in their actions, that while claiming to be against ignorance, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, fail to see that their behavior demonstrates the exact same characteristics. It is that kind of discource that makes me see that it isn’t only religious intolerance that causes many global conflicts, but it also the intolerance towards religion.

I enjoy well-thought debate, anything beyond that is useless from both sides.

One of my favorite quotes:
The Gods are just. No doubt. But their code of law is dictated, in the last resort, by the people who organize society; providence takes its cue from men.
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

One of my non-favorite quotes:
[quote comment="57312"]WOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

RELIGIOUS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1[/quote]

It is only disappointing because of your amautre use of the “!” Up to eight “!”s are acceptable, anything beyond that is excessive. And the “!?” Unprofessional!!!!!!

What do you you really think about organized religion?.. I being a baptist find the church to be just another falsehood. Is there anything truly honest out there. But of course this is just a thing that shouldn’t be discussed as two strict societal rules: no religion, no poitics.

first, in my personal opinion from the research that I have done, being agnostic means that you understand you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of a supreme being. It is not that we are “fence sitters”, we are those that need actual proof. And by proof, not the simplistic notion of “just look around you”.

second, one thing that really irritates me is when people say “I hate religion”. I am not a member of any organized religion (as stated above, I am agnostic). But to say you HATE religion is rooted in ignorance. It is unfortunate how some fly the flag of God whilest stabbing it through the heart of another, but don’t judge a politician by his constituents.

remember, if the Bible truly is the word of God, don’t blame Him for Man’s inability to interpret it correctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1FdtpH8lSI

Here’s a Youtube video that discusses the links of Christianity and Paganism as a short example.

The belief system that has dominated many of our lives has a basis that is hardly original and an attempt to conform to a literal interpretation of the bible has led to some of the greatest abuses in history. When the article refered to in Matt’s piece talks about returning to traditional Christian values I think it’s important to understand EXACTLY what that means.

[quote comment="57444"]The bible is a collection of myths that are probably rooted in ancient Egyptian mystery cults. The early founders of the church took Pagan beliefs and metaphors that were never intended to be taken literally and turned them into psuedo history…much misery has resulted including the Dark Ages, the Inquisition and endless religious wars over details that have no basis in reality.

I can understand why anyone would be opposed to a return to such thinking.[/quote]

While I may not agree with everything Matt posts on his blog(religious or otherwise), I generally have a certain amount of respect for the guy, and therefore i respect his opinion, and his right to post whatever he wishes on his own blog. The people who comment on those posts however, are a completely different story.
What annoys me is not the criticism of Christianity, because I know full well there are some valid ones, and even if I may not agree with those criticisms, they make some logical sense and are certainly worthy of analysis and consideration.
That being said, ive seen that video before, and it is replete with errors, and if you cannot identify them, then your opinion is uneducated.
Secondly, the dark ages??? I dont suppose that had anything to do with the collapse of the Roman Empire? Im certain religion played a role, but saying Christianity was the cause of it is as convoluted as saying you can separate religion from politics. As for the “countless religious wars that hold no basis in reality” Im assuming you are referring (at least primarily) to the Crusades? If you havn’t connected the occurrence of the Crusades to centuries of Jihadist Invasions a number of which got as far as Vienna, then you have no business making such statements to begin with. Other reasons, for the Crusades, were the rise of the Seljuk Turks who waged wars against the Byzantine Empire, who then pleaded with the Holy Roman Empire for help; the fact that in those times regions like Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt were still heavily populated by Christians who were placed in a state of dhimmitude under their Islamic overlords; the attacks on, and murder of Christian pilgrims traveling to the holy land, and the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. I could go on, there are countless reasons for the Crusades, the vast, vast majority of which do not include religious fanaticism. Of course, for you to realize that it would require you to actually pick up a book instead of just rehashing old cliche’s and then pawning them off as historical fact.
Lastly, the Inquisition, had less to do with religion than with politics, and even then it was not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. However, if you thought the Spanish Inquisition was bad, take a look at how people were treated in Andalus, and how the religious zealotry which arose in Spain with the inquisition was influenced by it.

[quote comment="57444"]literal interpretation of the bible has led to some of the greatest abuses in history.[/quote]

Basing Christianity on a fundamentalist and literal interpretation of the bible is a relatively modern practice originating sometime after the reformation, and practiced mostly in Protestant circles. However, the fact that you cite traditionalism and fundamentalism, as the reasons behind the opposition to same sex marriage just proves your own ignorance and that your understanding of Christianity is really quite simplistic and uneducated, and furthermore that your understanding of those two words(fundamentalism and traditionalism) is almost entirely based on the stereotypes and cliches you have heard others regurgitate.
However, if we are going to play the misery game, then just take a look at every secular utopian endeavor ever undertaken in history, and you will see misery of such monstrous proportions that it will make the Crusades look like a picnic.

Anyway, didnt really want to join into the religious post comment shit show, but there you have it.

What’s more likely anyway, that 2,000 years ago there was man who could defy all the laws of physics as we now understand them…who could walk on water, raise the dead, multiply food, transmute substances, heal the sick, return from death and more.

Or a cult that originated during the turmoil of the Roman occupation of Judea came to incorporate aspects of Pagan beliefs from the cultures around the region, Hellenic, Egyptian and more. Myths that were created to describe the divine potential in us all were adapted to fit the temporal needs of a cult that eventually came to dominate the Roman Empire and then by extention all of Europe and far beyond. In the process much of the knowledge of the ancient world was erradicated to conceal the early origins of the church and allow the convenient fiction to persist…for political and secular reasons, it had nothing to do with the spirit. The schools teaching logic in Greece were eventually closed, books and ancient scrolls burned, most other religious belief systems oppressed, banned or eliminated. The great library in Alexandria was also burned and anyone who opposed official church dogma was eventually left open to charges of herecy leading to the Inquisition and all its excesses.

So the way the christian church modified ancient beliefs from the start did play a large role in both the Dark Ages and the Inquisition. And how many wars have there been over details and different sects in the Chrisitian faith that as I’ve pointed out have no real basis in reality. If the Christ of the bible didn’t exist and is a composite of many different allegories whos real meanings were lost then did it really matter if you believed in the holy trinity or whether or not catholics or protestants followed the true faith. None of it is true in a literal snese, but millions have died violently with christs name on their lips and millions have been killed in the name of a man-god who was supposed to be our salvation. That fact alone indicates to me something deeply flawed in the Christian faith. How could something which on the surface was supposed to be about love and empathy, be the root of so much suffering?

I always get nervous when christian fundamentalists talk about getting back to the basics of the religion because it truly is a religion washed in the blood of a lamb, only the lamb isn’t christ, it’s all those who got in the way of a cumbersome and relentless political/religous machine.

Just ask the Cathars about Christian love, forgiveness and understanding…if there were any left. Or the thousands of natives and others who’ve suffered deeply at the hands of prominent Christian organizations here in Canada. Our government and the churches may apolgize but it’s too late to mean anything for many who’ve had their lives shattered beyond repair.

I think I understand the Christian faith far to well.

[quote comment="57547"]I’ll say this again, before you blame other people/religion for the worlds problems, why don’t you take a good look at yourself and see what you do to contribute to them, then go from there.[/quote]

This is good advice. I think a good place to start is to not pretend to know things that you don’t really know. And this is the very problem with Theism to begin with. It’s one thing to prefer a belief in the idea of a personal god, but its another thing entirely to claim to know that god exists. Not only that it exists, but to know its mind; to know its will. Something that no human can claim to know. And then to teach it as truth to others. To teach it as truth to children. And then you wonder why people are flying planes into buildings.

“These are my feet
These are my hands
These are my children
And this is my demand
Bring down the angels
Cast them from my sight
I never want to see
A million suns at midnight

Your hands are empty
The streets are empty
You can’t control us
You can’t control us anymore”

When The Angels Fall - Sting

[quote comment="57547"]I’ll say this again, before you blame other people/religion for the worlds problems, why don’t you take a good look at yourself and see what you do to contribute to them, then go from there.[/quote]

I was brought up Anglican so I’m not blaming other people/relgions for the the worlds problems, I’m discussing the doubtful foundation of a belief system that has fundamentally altered the world and continues to do so.

Considering the appalling state of affairs for so many while a realitive few live what is close to an earthly paradise, I think it’s very important to examine where we went wrong.