The Upside To Extinction
The Critically Endangered grey-shanked douc langur.
It’s a good thing that we possess the technology to photograph and film animals in the wild. That way, when a species disappears, it has the ability to haunt us for eternity.
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August 4th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I remember the article you wrote with the exact idea a few months ago…
We take photographs of the bald eagle we see flying in the sky; we take videos of the killer whales we watch swimming in the ocean; yet does it ever cross our minds that one day all that will exist of an experience like that will be those exact photographs and videos.
I wish I could agree with you that these photographs will have the ability to haunt us, yet I can’t ignore that fact we already have footage of that which no longer exist (animal species, plant species etc.) yet it seems more species keep piling up on the list. Where is the breaking point??? What will it take to make significant change???
The truth is things like this really don’t ‘haunt’ the masses; they really don’t mean that much. People are more concerned with who will suck their dick next then how we’re going to minimize destruction and extinction…
August 4th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Whether it be wild, domestic, or even of our very own kind, life that should be so valued, so respected, so preserved, is most often destroyed or abandoned.
And for what?
For profit, for convenience, and for ignorance.
This modern habit, the casual discarding of precious life, will be the death of us all. And it has started, with the value of our souls.
The thought of it cuts to my core. And I am haunted by the eyes.
This post is breaking my heart.
August 4th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
another way of looking at it…
http://www.worldwithoutus.com/
August 4th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
[quote comment="60619"]another way of looking at it…
http://www.worldwithoutus.com//quote
That’s the way my sight gazes most of the time…
The modern day human species of industrialized nations are an unsustainable species; human extinction is inevitable, its just a matter of how long we have to wait for that one.
Plus by the time that happens the majority of indigenous groups will have already been destroyed by our development and destruction of their resources, so you can say good-bye to humans for good.
I dream about this shit, haha
August 4th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Wow. Those eyes really burn into the soul.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
People suck.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Wow, that little guy is cute! If I could I would rescue him and keep him for a pet. The eyes are awesome - like when Willow taps into the dark magic.
And, what a coincidence that you posted this. I am just finishing the main body of my thesis which is greatly concerned with hauntings and eternity (well, infinity actually - close enough…eternity is how long it’s taking me to write the stupid thing given my lack of willpower when it comes to distractions).
August 4th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I used to be a humanitarian…
As of late I’m not so sure we should have any rights, when we needlessly destroy all that supports and sustains us.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
[quote comment="60623"]Wow, that little guy is cute! If I could I would rescue him and keep him for a pet. [/quote]
Although I feel the same way because he is so freakin adorable, isn’t that our problem??? We ‘rescue’ animals by putting them in captivity… it doesn’t really make any sense.
Not really so much concerned with the consequences beforehand… but after the fact we ’save’ them to cover our asses. If ’saving’ me consisted of taking me from my natural and wild habitat, putting me in a cage, and feeding me the same shit everyday I would much rather be dead.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Yet another fantastic creature we have lost way too soon.
It’s sad what we are doing to our planet.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
[quote comment="60623"]Wow, that little guy is cute! If I could I would rescue him and keep him for a pet. The eyes are awesome - like when Willow taps into the dark magic.
And, what a coincidence that you posted this. I am just finishing the main body of my thesis which is greatly concerned with hauntings and eternity (well, infinity actually - close enough…eternity is how long it’s taking me to write the stupid thing given my lack of willpower when it comes to distractions).[/quote]
I am sure you mean well but wild animals should never be pets. Often, especially primates, the mother is killed to sell the infant on the black market.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
[quote comment="60626"][quote comment="60623"]Wow, that little guy is cute! If I could I would rescue him and keep him for a pet. [/quote]
Although I feel the same way because he is so freakin adorable, isn’t that our problem??? We ‘rescue’ animals by putting them in captivity… it doesn’t really make any sense.
Not really so much concerned with the consequences beforehand… but after the fact we ’save’ them to cover our asses. If ’saving’ me consisted of taking me from my natural and wild habitat, putting me in a cage, and feeding me the same shit everyday I would much rather be dead.[/quote]
Amen
August 4th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Although…could we not say the same for some of the people who live very routine lives? Just another after thought.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
[quote comment="60624"]I used to be a humanitarian…
As of late I’m not so sure we should have any rights, when we needlessly destroy all that supports and sustains us.[/quote]
Its our selfishness that is the problem…
We are too caught up in fighting for our own rights to recognize the fact that other species in our world have rights as well.
“we’re not the only species on the planet we just act like it”
Its also our ignorance… and I thought humans are supposed to be an intelligent species, hee hee
August 4th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
[quote comment="60630"]Although…could we not say the same for some of the people who live very routine lives? Just another after thought.[/quote]
The difference is the animals don’t have a choice.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
[quote comment="60630"]Although…could we not say the same for some of the people who live very routine lives? Just another after thought.[/quote]
That thought crossed my mind as well…
I should of stated that I meant if I were a non-human animal who’s home is in the wild.
I think we can’t overlook the fact that humans live in captivity throughout their whole lives, in the western civilization we are certainly not ‘wild’… this could be why we see no problem with captivating non-human animals, for we are captive animals as well.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
[quote comment="60632"][quote comment="60630"]Although…could we not say the same for some of the people who live very routine lives? Just another after thought.[/quote]
The difference is the animals don’t have a choice.[/quote]
Good point.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Whoa, easy guys! I know all that…I would never never never…that’s why I said “if I could” - ie, if it wasn’t cruel and illegal, etc. etc. Though I have to say, despite what I now know about zoos and how horrible they are, frequent visits as a kid certainly bred me into a an animal lover and subsequently into an animal rights kinda person…catch 22, yeah?
So what I meant to say is that when I get super rich I will buy a giant patch of land and turn that little guy’s home into a nature reserve/protected area/breeding site etc. Better?
August 4th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I think most of our society revels in our supposed “top of the food chain” status. It makes us feel powerful & special when in reality, for the most part, we are selfish, wasteful & entirely disposable.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
[quote comment="60635"]Whoa, easy guys! I know all that…I would never never never…that’s why I said “if I could” - ie, if it wasn’t cruel and illegal, etc. etc. Though I have to say, despite what I now know about zoos and how horrible they are, frequent visits as a kid certainly bred me into a an animal lover and subsequently into an animal rights kinda person…catch 22, yeah?
So what I meant to say is that when I get super rich I will buy a giant patch of land and turn that little guy’s home into a nature reserve/protected area/breeding site etc. Better?[/quote]
Better. The only problem is giant patches of land are disappearing. Check out the situation in Borneo and the habitat of orangutans. Most people aren’t aware they are most likely to become extinct in the wild during our lifetime.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Is it just me, or does the face look like it’s been photoshopped onto that body?
I know I’m going to get ripped apart for saying that, being heartless and all, but it seriously looked like it to me.
The good thing about photography is that maybe future generations will be more civilized and choose to protect animals more after seeing images like this one and hearing that they’re gone (almost gone) because of us.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
[quote comment="60635"]Whoa, easy guys! I know all that…I would never never never…that’s why I said “if I could” - ie, if it wasn’t cruel and illegal, etc. etc. Though I have to say, despite what I now know about zoos and how horrible they are, frequent visits as a kid certainly bred me into a an animal lover and subsequently into an animal rights kinda person…catch 22, yeah?
So what I meant to say is that when I get super rich I will buy a giant patch of land and turn that little guy’s home into a nature reserve/protected area/breeding site etc. Better?[/quote]
I was going to say when I posted that it wasn’t a personal attack, it was just a thought that popped into my mind.
I guess I’m somewhat of a hypocrite for I work at the Beacon Hill Children’s Farm in Victoria. I’ve worked there for four years now, it all started for my love of animals. There are undoubtedly huge differences between a ‘farm’ and a ‘zoo’ the biggest being that the animals kept on a farm are not ‘exotic’ and would be living on a farm anyways but just recently I’ve been having a very hard time with the idea that we put these animals in pens for human entertainment…
When you win the lottery I support your idea…
But just make sure humans aren’t allowed to invade :D
August 4th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
[quote comment="60639"][quote comment="60635"]Whoa, easy guys! I know all that…I would never never never…that’s why I said “if I could” - ie, if it wasn’t cruel and illegal, etc. etc. Though I have to say, despite what I now know about zoos and how horrible they are, frequent visits as a kid certainly bred me into a an animal lover and subsequently into an animal rights kinda person…catch 22, yeah?
So what I meant to say is that when I get super rich I will buy a giant patch of land and turn that little guy’s home into a nature reserve/protected area/breeding site etc. Better?[/quote]
I was going to say when I posted that it wasn’t a personal attack, it was just a thought that popped into my mind.
I guess I’m somewhat of a hypocrite for I work at the Beacon Hill Children’s Farm in Victoria. I’ve worked there for four years now, it all started for my love of animals. There are undoubtedly huge differences between a ‘farm’ and a ‘zoo’ the biggest being that the animals kept on a farm are not ‘exotic’ and would be living on a farm anyways but just recently I’ve been having a very hard time with the idea that we put these animals in pens for human entertainment…
When you win the lottery I support your idea…
But just make sure humans aren’t allowed to invade :D[/quote]
I agree with both of you but you don’t have to wait until you win the lottery.
http://commerce03.i2net.com/able55new/stores/24/Foster-Program-C426.aspx
August 4th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
[quote comment="60636"]I think most of our society revels in our supposed “top of the food chain” status. It makes us feel powerful & special when in reality, for the most part, we are selfish, wasteful & entirely disposable.[/quote]
Oh no doubt.
I love your “’supposed’ top of the food chain comment” for some reason it makes me think of incidents especially here on Vancouver island where cougars or bears decide to make their way into ‘human habitat’ and they end up getting killed if they happened to make an encounter with a human… we’re not the top of food chain, we’re babies.
“…selfish, wasteful, and entirely disposable…”
I am a cynic and will constantly say that “i hate humans”…
However I do not, I feel we are capable of a lot and of living ‘with’ what is around us.
But I think we choose to be ignorant because we are too comfortable with they way we live and no ready to give that up… which is where me “hating” the majority of our species comes into play.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Okay, I’m going to screw up the quoting so I’ll just say…I CAN HAVE A PET MONKEY!
Thanks wsw!
(For the record, I was a card carrying member of PETA for most of my life, until my financial resources had to be diverted towards actual humans for various reasons. The above chiding is what I get for being flip. And no worries, I would be very happy to go live in a forest with a bunch of (real) monkeys…no humans would be allowed to ruin that fantasy were it ever to come true!)
August 4th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
[quote comment="60643"]Okay, I’m going to screw up the quoting so I’ll just say…I CAN HAVE A PET MONKEY!
Thanks wsw!
(For the record, I was a card carrying member of PETA for most of my life, until my financial resources had to be diverted towards actual humans for various reasons. The above chiding is what I get for being flip. And no worries, I would be very happy to go live in a forest with a bunch of (real) monkeys…no humans would be allowed to ruin that fantasy were it ever to come true!)[/quote]
yes you can!
not to be too picky but…they’re apes not monkeys.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Sigh. Poor animals..
August 4th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Close enough.
And I meant to say I would go live ‘alone’ - there will be no other humans but me in my monkey paradise.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
To Monkey, definitely was NOT trying to attack you whatsoever…I was just thinking - hey, have the monkey, as you long as you love it and care for it. It’s better than nothing.
I think at some point in early history, philosophers decided that the way humans ran things was rather destructive and unfair…we lived in tyrannical times…but somewhere in the late centuries, these ideas were changed to embrace too many human rights and it seems that we decided to focus all of our ideas of justice and fairness on human beings. We literally didn’t think of human life in terms of environment or animal rights or ecosystems. Instead we created names like economy, without realizing that without the environment and sustainable ecosystems there is essentially no economy. It’s a huge conundrum that the right wingers and the left wingers throw at each other.
WSW - Do we really have a choice on whether or not we want to be conditioned? Considering it starts at birth? Considering some people who are terminally ill are not allowed to be “put to sleep,” the same way we do our pets…etc. I mean there are lots of examples, where humans have developed systems to maintain a standard of living that we cannot escape from…especially in the future when land proprietorship continues to shrink.
Although it is also a good point that some people do in fact choose to live rhetoric lives. Those of us who are consciously aware of it, anyways.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
[quote comment="60640"]
I agree with both of you but you don’t have to wait until you win the lottery.
http://commerce03.i2net.com/able55new/stores/24/Foster-Program-C426.aspx/quote
Spent some time thinking and this is where another problem lies…
Having these shelters will not take orangutans out of danger; having these shelters will not stop what puts them there in the first place. We are so used to covering up things, but we aren’t so good at changing the root causes.
Its along the same lines of our justice system; jails and such have existed for fuck knows how long however people are still raping and murdering others…
To make significant change we need to get to the roots, but that’s where no one wants to go.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
[quote comment="60649"][quote comment="60640"]
I agree with both of you but you don’t have to wait until you win the lottery.
http://commerce03.i2net.com/able55new/stores/24/Foster-Program-C426.aspx/quote
Spent some time thinking and this is where another problem lies…
Having these shelters will not take orangutans out of danger; having these shelters will not stop what puts them there in the first place. We are so used to covering up things, but we aren’t so good at changing the root causes.
Its along the same lines of our justice system; jails and such have existed for fuck knows how long however people are still raping and murdering others…
To make significant change we need to get to the roots, but that’s where no one wants to go.[/quote]
True. Its very complicated. The care center in the link doesn’t solve the problem of habitat loss and poaching but it cares for the results of those problems which is orphans who can’t survive in the wild on their own.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I want to have hope that people will change. But I also have to hope sometimes, that I will continue to have hope, because sometimes it’s just so clear that it’s going to take an Armageddon like experience for this planet to realize that change is needed.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
That picture is so haunting, it will creep me in my dreams tonite. GUARANTEED.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
[quote comment="60652"]I want to have hope that people will change. But I also have to hope sometimes, that I will continue to have hope, because sometimes it’s just so clear that it’s going to take an Armageddon like experience for this planet to realize that change is needed.[/quote]
I think the sad reality is that it is going to take a cataclysmic event for people to realize how bad we’ve fucked up… The positive side of it all is that the Earth is capable of ‘healing’; of recovering, but the negative side is that with all the destruction and pain that is caused to it every day there is no way it could do it. I ‘pray’ for an Armageddon.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
[quote comment="60638"]Is it just me, or does the face look like it’s been photoshopped onto that body?
I know I’m going to get ripped apart for saying that, being heartless and all, but it seriously looked like it to me.
[/quote]
Yah, that is exactly what I find haunting and which is the exact reason I still haven’t loaded photoshop. I hate completely altered pix to the point they don’t even look real anymore. He looks photoshoped.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I keep looking at the picture.Thinking about it all. Getting angrier and angrier. Reading peoples disgust for what is happening. But what’s really sad is that all of us, including myself, are going to wake up tomorrow and go on with our lives as usual…
August 4th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
[quote comment="60658"] But what’s really sad is that all of us, including myself, are going to wake up tomorrow and go on with our lives as usual…[/quote]
I sighed when I read that. Dam, the truth sucks. Maybe, just this time I’ll actually send Ms. Newkirk some money.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Since someone brought up PETA, I’m wondering what people think of this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
It’s from “Penn and Teller’s Bullsh!t” It surprised me.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
My brother-in-law just made it back last night from Autuquittuq (never mind I can’t spell it) Park in Baffin Island after an aborted 6-day solo hiking trek - got back last night after being a day late.. They picked him up by chopper on day 5. Melting glaciers, swollen and raging rivers, pieces of the riverbank 60 feet long just dropping into the river. He said it has always been a beautiful and striking place - but never such a shock and such sadness.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I don’t think it was photo shopped. Looks like a low res image that was res’d up. Sharpened blurry.
compare with this pic…
http://www.monkeyland.co.za/modules/article/dbimages/article/douclangur2.jpg
August 4th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
[quote comment="60638"]Is it just me, or does the face look like it’s been photoshopped onto that body?
I know I’m going to get ripped apart for saying that, being heartless and all, but it seriously looked like it to me.
The good thing about photography is that maybe future generations will be more civilized and choose to protect animals more after seeing images like this one and hearing that they’re gone (almost gone) because of us.[/quote]
That photograph was taken from a BBC article, so I highly doubt it.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Almost half the world’s primate species face extinction, mainly through habitat loss, but also through being hunted for food. This little fella is threatened by hunting and deforestation in Vietnam…
A few years ago I was privileged to witness wild Orang Utan deep in the rainforests of Borneo, but deforestation and vast, sprawling palm plantations are fast eroding their habitat. When he strays off territory, into the plantations, this majestic ape is almost certainly doomed – shot or captured and sold as a pet.
It is ironic that, in our quest to find alternatives to fossil fuels, vast tracts of land are being turned over to crops for ‘biofuels’. Crops for human consumption don’t get planted, the price of staples such as wheat and rice rocket…and people who used to live off the land now hunt and kill apes to survive.
This world was doomed the day it started to burn yesterday’s sunshine…
August 4th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
And no, he’s not been PhotoShopped; he’s just shown here a little bigger than on the original site.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
[quote comment="60662"]Since someone brought up PETA, I’m wondering what people think of this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
It’s from “Penn and Teller’s Bullsh!t” It surprised me.[/quote]
Interesting, I was just reading an article the other day about how stupid that show was because it was just a way for them to publicize their personal opinions. I think Penn and Teller only embarrass themselves with their ignorant arguments. What they had to say didn’t surprise me, it is what is expected from those who care only about their own species. And this is why I have a problem with humans…
When I was about fourteen I was a big supporter of PETA, however I am not so much anymore. This mainly has to do with their idea that protesting and sending letters is going to change everything. They’re kind of a rookie animals rights group; a default group… usually a started for major animal rights supporters. I also have a huge problem with the sexist approaches of many of their campaigns; using celebrities with bit tits and naked women in cages to gain support.
In the video they talk a bunch about Rod Cornado, someone who I have just started learning about. This man has consistently risked his life for the lives of non-human animals and he’s actually accomplished many things. I personally support the man. It’s true that no one has ever died from a ALF action, but lives have been saved. I’m not a pacifist, but I also don’t see defacing corporate property as violence. Killing someone and destroying property should not be considered the same thing…
I ‘m also a supporter of the campaign PETA had called ‘Holocaust On Your Plate’; I thought it was brilliant. People were so shocked by it because they thought it was sickening to compare what happened to those people during the holocaust with what happens to non-human animals every day. We have this distorted reality that we’re better than non-human animals. I think that merging these scenarios was a brilliant way to put us on the same level as our non-human friends. I know I’m going to get shit from some humanitarians for this so I am going to state that I am a human-rights supporter, but I am not one who ignores the rights of other species.
I also like how their biggest issue was PETA being “opposed [to] using medical research to save human lives” Billions of non-human animals are killed every year in the name of medical research, however it is absolutely true when they state that it is impossible to know exactly how a medication will work on one species by testing it on another, every species has significant differences from the others. I was having a conversation with a good friend of mine the other day about this same thing. We were discussing how using non-human animals for research isn’t even about human lives at all, that is a misconception, it is about saving a companies ass. They use animals to make their research seem more liable. So if they are ever under investigation all they need is their documented ‘proof’ of their successes and they’ve saved their ass. And nobody said they had to record the things which went wrong. Because it is believed that it testing on non-human animals is a liable way to decide whether something is safe for humans to use, the companies will win every time.
… I also like the ridiculous remark made about the man who was talking about ALF, saying that he was wearing a leather belt. Obviously they’ve never heard of leather alternatives. It was just another example of their ignorance.
The one thing we forget is that we too are animals.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:27 am
[quote comment="60665"][quote comment="60638"]Is it just me, or does the face look like it’s been photoshopped onto that body?
I know I’m going to get ripped apart for saying that, being heartless and all, but it seriously looked like it to me.
The good thing about photography is that maybe future generations will be more civilized and choose to protect animals more after seeing images like this one and hearing that they’re gone (almost gone) because of us.[/quote]
That photograph was taken from a BBC article, so I highly doubt it.[/quote]
I also doubted it, it just had… that feeling, that look to it. As those types of things usually do. I know/trust that it isn’t photoshopped.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:55 am
[quote comment="60665"][quote comment="60638"]Is it just me, or does the face look like it’s been photoshopped onto that body?
I know I’m going to get ripped apart for saying that, being heartless and all, but it seriously looked like it to me.
The good thing about photography is that maybe future generations will be more civilized and choose to protect animals more after seeing images like this one and hearing that they’re gone (almost gone) because of us.[/quote]
That photograph was taken from a BBC article, so I highly doubt it.[/quote]
Sorry, you got there before me, though my monitor didn’t show it like that. Bizarre :0)
August 5th, 2008 at 2:05 am
I think we have enough issues regarding humans. Besides, economy first.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:51 am
[quote comment="60638"]The good thing about photography is that maybe future generations will be more civilized and choose to protect animals more after seeing images like this one and hearing that they’re gone (almost gone) because of us.[/quote]
I, for my part, highly doubt *that*.
People think about these problems barely as far as they reach the point when they would seriously have to search for a way out of the misery. And that is where they usually drop out feeling sort of overstrained. I think that the numer of those totally devoting themselves to these endangered species, making it a lifetime task for them to make these creatures survive, will always stay very lowly.
August 5th, 2008 at 7:27 am
A relevant article I found this AM.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jxjhXlVcWF96SUxY88hW0ylFQNnQD92C3HN81
August 5th, 2008 at 8:49 am
I’m not sure we’re going to be around for eternity. Humans are just one more species in the web of life, cut enough strands and the whole thing flys apart.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Here’s another tragic thing to ponder.
All the Chimpanzees you see in movies and on TV are juveniles. By the time a chimp get to about seven it’s too strong and dangerous to work with and is permanently “retired” from entertainment. Some go to labs and others end up confined for the rest of their lives in substandard facilities. I’ve even heard of them being shot in those pathetic canned hunts in Texas.
One of the dirty little secrets Hollywood doesn’t talk about much.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
[quote comment="60617"]
I wish I could agree with you that these photographs will have the ability to haunt us, yet I can’t ignore that fact we already have footage of that which no longer exist (animal species, plant species etc.) yet it seems more species keep piling up on the list. Where is the breaking point??? What will it take to make significant change???
The truth is things like this really don’t ‘haunt’ the masses; they really don’t mean that much. People are more concerned with who will suck their dick next then how we’re going to minimize destruction and extinction…[/quote]
They haunt humanity, it effect people in different ways, but all of our terrible deeds come back to haunt us. But humanity seems to like ghostly images. As war is a haunting image as well, yet we still keep starting them. We are haunted by so many injustices but we do nothing about them until either it is too late and the damage is done to where it causes one problem to replace the next, or we get rid of those that claim that there is an injustice, and forget about the people, while still claiming to be nothing short of gods.
History is something that haunts us. It does in a way like a ghost or something similar. If you ignore the ghost and don’t accept that it is there as it seems to be, i won’t be a problem but with history, there is always a problem when your forget it. By forgetting what we have done, and what we have created, we are sentencing ourselves to be haunted by own own actions, and those of others that we seem to think of as some of the worst in human history.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Haunting was the word that came to mind when I read this article today…just before I ventured over here.
On a brighter note: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jxjhXlVcWF96SUxY88hW0ylFQNnQD92C7BL80
But the fact that this find more than doubles the estimated population of this species is nothing less than our own disgrace.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
There are those who care about species disappearing, and those who just plain don’t, and you’d be hard pressed to explain to the latter exactly why it’s important if species go extinct. Human greed knows no bounds. Isn’t that the root of most of our problems?
I see someone posted the link to the story about the gorillas; some positive news for a change, though not positive enough to stop worrying.
More than 41,000 species on the IUCN Red List… I don’t know; is there anything that can be done? Are we all resigned to just sit back and watch species drop off? Is it all just inevitable?
August 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
I have a really scary memory of this one lecture on DNA I had in my first year of university, where the speaker said right out that since we’re killing off so many species at such an alarming rate, the answer might be to just genetically re-create them. And I just sat there thinking “…or… just stop letting them go extinct?”
August 5th, 2008 at 10:35 am
[quote comment="60694"]I have a really scary memory of this one lecture on DNA I had in my first year of university, where the speaker said right out that since we’re killing off so many species at such an alarming rate, the answer might be to just genetically re-create them. And I just sat there thinking “…or… just stop letting them go extinct?”[/quote]
Yea, we had a big discussion about this in my micro class years ago. They are freezing stem cells of endangered animals for future advances in cloning. This opened up a can of worms. This is just ethically wrong IMOP. Let’s just concentrate on saving their habitats.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
[quote comment="60673"]I think we have enough issues regarding humans. Besides, economy first.[/quote]
Agreed. At the end of the day, who gives a fuck about this monkey? How does this primate affect my life? Not at all. I’ve got more important issues to deal with. To wit: How is the Green Bay Packer quarterbacking situation going to play out? How much higher are gas prices going to rise? I’ve got to park my Hummer a couple days each week, and drive the (more fuel efficient) BMW instead. And finally, my closest Starbucks just closed. These are important issues. Fuck the monkey.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
[quote comment="60673"]I think we have enough issues regarding humans. Besides, economy first.[/quote]
Agreed. Who gives a fuck about this monkey? How does this primate affect my life? Not at all. Besides, I’ve got more pressing issues to deal with. To wit: How is the Green Bay Packer quarterbacking situation going to play out? How much higher are gas prices going to rise? I’m reduced to driving my Hummer only three times a week; I have to slum it with the much more fuel efficient BMW for the other days. And finally, my neighborhood Starbucks just closed. Life sucks. Fuck the monkey.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
[...] his post The Upside of Extinction, Matthew Good [...]
August 5th, 2008 at 11:29 am
It will only haunt those of us who care. The rest will deny it was our fault, proclaim the cause was part of some “natural cycle” and continue the status quo.
The reality of this just hurts.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Such is the result of a civilization ignorant of ecosystems. We’re all to blame.
As long as we value production over life, species will continue becoming instinct. We will continue clear cutting forests, trawling the oceans, and pumping pollutants into the air, water, and earth.
We don’t see nature anymore, we see dollar bills. And we see our inevitable demise.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:39 am
[quote comment="60705"]It will only haunt those of us who care. The rest will deny it was our fault, proclaim the cause was part of some “natural cycle” and continue the status quo.
The reality of this just hurts.[/quote]
RIght. Honestly BJ, had you even *heard* of the douc langur before today? Be honest, your Illustrious Leader foisted this primate’s plight upon you today. And this comes from the self proclaimed dog lover…. who keeps them cloistered in an apartment. Dogs need exercise, not spend their lives cooped up in a shitty apartment.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:42 am
And for every picture, there are a hundred (thousand) more species at risk.
Each and every story/picture saddens me. I can’t imagine that we are responsible for wiping out entire species…those two lines from Big Yellow Taxi keep running through my mind.
My mother in law and I both love gorillas…it’s a common interest that we’ve shared over the years. Although it started long before, Koko escalated that by showing us how truly beautiful and intelligent these creatures actually are.
We’ve been noticing over the past few years that there are no calendars with pictures of gorillas in them available anywhere anymore…I normally buy one for her for her birthday. I’m sure that we’re supposed to just forget about them over time? It seems that way.
Glad to hear that gorillas are getting some attention -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_agreement
….hopefully it’s not too late for this guy. Haunting is right t….we suck.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:51 am
[quote comment="60707"][quote comment="60705"]It will only haunt those of us who care. The rest will deny it was our fault, proclaim the cause was part of some “natural cycle” and continue the status quo.
The reality of this just hurts.[/quote]
RIght. Honestly BJ, had you even *heard* of the douc langur before today? Be honest, your Illustrious Leader foisted this primate’s plight upon you today. And this comes from the self proclaimed dog lover…. who keeps them cloistered in an apartment. Dogs need exercise, not spend their lives cooped up in a shitty apartment.[/quote]
I’ve never *heard* of the douc langur before today, but there are many species I have *heard* of that are extinct today. Therefore, dear critical thinker, the douc langur would serve as an example for those species that are extinct and the species we’ve never *heard* of that are to be extinct, that we, as people, choose not to look at because, we, as people, have never *heard* of the douc langer. So why bother?
As for personally attacking someone and the way they choose to house or care for their animals, well, it’s downright ridiculous how you could compare this post to that of which you think yourself. They are two complete seperate issues. If you have issues with the “Leader” who YOU think spends no time with his animals, nor takes any vested interest in taking them outside for exercise, than thats something you should discuss with said person or keep it in your head. Instead of trying to preach to the rest of us because you can’t discern between two seperate topics and feel you need to throw your negative ideas and energy around.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Deb, did you catch the link to the gorilla story earlier?
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/08/05/gorillas-congo.html
August 5th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
[quote comment="60708"]And for every picture, there are a hundred (thousand) more species at risk.
Each and every story/picture saddens me. I can’t imagine that we are responsible for wiping out entire species…those two lines from Big Yellow Taxi keep running through my mind.
My mother in law and I both love gorillas…it’s a common interest that we’ve shared over the years. Although it started long before, Koko escalated that by showing us how truly beautiful and intelligent these creatures actually are.
We’ve been noticing over the past few years that there are no calendars with pictures of gorillas in them available anywhere anymore…I normally buy one for her for her birthday. I’m sure that we’re supposed to just forget about them over time? It seems that way.
Glad to hear that gorillas are getting some attention -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_agreement
….hopefully it’s not too late for this guy. Haunting is right t….we suck.[/quote]
In the news today. This will bring a smile to your face :)
125,000 Gorillas found in the Congo forest. Google it.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Ket - Definitely nice to hear a positive story after all the mayhem. Thanks for finding that.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
[quote comment="60707"][quote comment="60705"]It will only haunt those of us who care. The rest will deny it was our fault, proclaim the cause was part of some “natural cycle” and continue the status quo.
The reality of this just hurts.[/quote]
RIght. Honestly BJ, had you even *heard* of the douc langur before today? Be honest, your Illustrious Leader foisted this primate’s plight upon you today. And this comes from the self proclaimed dog lover…. who keeps them cloistered in an apartment. Dogs need exercise, not spend their lives cooped up in a shitty apartment.[/quote]
I also hadn’t heard about Gyros up until recently…now they’re my favorite. It all starts somewhere you know.
You mean the dog lover who rescued dogs from horrible conditions, some of which might’ve died if he hadn’t cared? The dogs look pretty good to me…have you noticed that when the “Leader’s” not there, he has other “self proclaimed” dog lovers who ensure they’re well cared for?
You seem angry….what, exactly, is your point here?
August 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
[quote comment="60716"][quote comment="60707"][quote comment="60705"]It will only haunt those of us who care. The rest will deny it was our fault, proclaim the cause was part of some “natural cycle” and continue the status quo.
The reality of this just hurts.[/quote]
RIght. Honestly BJ, had you even *heard* of the douc langur before today? Be honest, your Illustrious Leader foisted this primate’s plight upon you today. And this comes from the self proclaimed dog lover…. who keeps them cloistered in an apartment. Dogs need exercise, not spend their lives cooped up in a shitty apartment.[/quote]
I also hadn’t heard about Gyros up until recently…now they’re my favorite. It all starts somewhere you know.
You mean the dog lover who rescued dogs from horrible conditions, some of which might’ve died if he hadn’t cared? The dogs look pretty good to me…have you noticed that when the “Leader’s” not there, he has other “self proclaimed” dog lovers who ensure they’re well cared for?
You seem angry….what, exactly, is your point here?[/quote]
I wouldn’t waste my time debating with this person.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Thanks ket…that’s encouraging news, isn’t it?
Although it’s just a drop in the bucket….at least something positive to focus on and raise awareness.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Ignore that person, it’s just a waste of time and energy. We know the truth, that’s all that matters.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
[quote comment="60707"][quote comment="60705"]It will only haunt those of us who care. The rest will deny it was our fault, proclaim the cause was part of some “natural cycle” and continue the status quo.
The reality of this just hurts.[/quote]
RIght. Honestly BJ, had you even *heard* of the douc langur before today? Be honest, your Illustrious Leader foisted this primate’s plight upon you today. And this comes from the self proclaimed dog lover…. who keeps them cloistered in an apartment. Dogs need exercise, not spend their lives cooped up in a shitty apartment.[/quote]
Whew… I believe them’s fightin’ words. lol
Honestly, these are not dingos caught out of the wild and holed up in our “Illustrious Leader’s” (Matt’s) apartment. These are domesticated (by us) dogs that would be dead if left alone outside. They get their exercise. They love their life and would be miserable without Matt and their apartment. True, we have created the environment for them to love, and taught them how to love it, but that’s damage done a long time ago. The best we can do is to not do this to any other species in the future.
I have not heard of the douc langour either. I’m sure there are hundreds of other species I haven’t heard of. Does this mean I don’t care? Absolutely not. I try, in my own ways, to do what I can for this planet of ours, and I think as long as we all can HONESTLY say we do this, we can look at this picture and still sleep at night.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
What a rarity, a species headed for extinction that we’re actually aware of. Then there’s all those that we never even knew about.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Quoting Ttam Doog ” RIght. Honestly BJ, had you even *heard* of the douc langur before today? Be honest, your Illustrious Leader foisted this primate’s plight upon you today”
I had certainly heard on langurs prior to this post - but not that specific species. You inadvertantly raised a good point - or reminder though - that part of conservation is education. Through education we hopefully can make connections with things and then have empathy for them. As an example in the Yukon we have one of the world’s smallest deserts (around 280 hectares) and in that desert can be found an endangered plant, the Baikal sedge. it is only found in 4 other places in North American, and even still, there is not much of it left. Most of you on here would not know that - and I’m sure the guys that go out there on weekends and run the stuff over with their ATV’s don’t know it either. I’m sure if a few more of them knew this, they’d find another place to roar around (I’d hope so anyway). It’s OK to not know about langurs, rare sedges, gorillas, etc., - but to know about them, or not be willing to learn about them and then still not give a shit is not OK.
I didn’t know that Taam Doog was Matt Good spelled backward until today - like Cigev Civ or something.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
[quote comment="60722"]Quoting Ttam Doog I didn’t know that Taam Doog was Matt Good spelled backward until today - like Cigev Civ or something.[/quote]
Hey, I didn’t notice that either. That’s creepy.
August 5th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
[quote comment="60700"]
Agreed. Who gives a fuck about this monkey? How does this primate affect my life? Not at all. Besides, I’ve got more pressing issues to deal with. To wit: How is the Green Bay Packer quarterbacking situation going to play out? How much higher are gas prices going to rise? I’m reduced to driving my Hummer only three times a week; I have to slum it with the much more fuel efficient BMW for the other days. And finally, my neighborhood Starbucks just closed. Life sucks. Fuck the monkey.[/quote]
I care.
Think of it as money (monkey) in the bank. The environment acts as a massively complex economy responsible for the production of the food, water and even the oxygen we breath. Every species plays its part and adds to the overall stability of the system. Start removing too many links in the chain and major collapses are inevitable. So while one primate species disappearing isn’t going to fundamentally change things, it’s an indicator of a serious process that’s taking place right in front of our eyes.
We all better start caring, when top predators like sharks and most marine fish species are removed by industrial fishing to the point where jelly fish are becoming a major catch in some parts of the world including the US, we’re fucking up one of the most important sources of oxygen in the world, the oceans. It’s all connected, and nature doesn’t give a damn what kind of vehicle you drive, just how big an impact you have.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Well. well, aren’t you clever Vic:
“Agreed. At the end of the day, who gives a fuck about this monkey? How does this primate affect my life? Not at all. I’ve got more important issues to deal with. To wit: How is the Green Bay Packer quarterbacking situation going to play out? How much higher are gas prices going to rise? I’ve got to park my Hummer a couple days each week, and drive the (more fuel efficient) BMW instead. And finally, my closest Starbucks just closed. These are important issues. Fuck the monkey”
Not funny - but I don’t suppose you meant it to be funny. Criticism is generally, and most responsibly used as a way to disagree with a subject for which you care about, have some poignant, articulate, and useful contribution to make, and sometimes know something about. If you don’t care about the topic - fine. If you really care more about your, probably, fictitious cars, that is OK too. I you don’t want to contribute something thoughtful, inspired, or insightful - and have a genuine contribtution to make then - go away. You’re like some unepmloyed shock jockey.
August 5th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
[quote comment="60700"][quote comment="60673"]I think we have enough issues regarding humans. Besides, economy first.[/quote]
Agreed. Who gives a fuck about this monkey? How does this primate affect my life? Not at all. Besides, I’ve got more pressing issues to deal with. To wit: How is the Green Bay Packer quarterbacking situation going to play out? How much higher are gas prices going to rise? I’m reduced to driving my Hummer only three times a week; I have to slum it with the much more fuel efficient BMW for the other days. And finally, my neighborhood Starbucks just closed. Life sucks. Fuck the monkey.[/quote]
While this user seems to despise the actions of Matt Good, I do think that in this particular post, he was being sarcastic. If in fact he wasn’t being sarcastic, and he really did care that Starbucks closed in his neighbourhood and he could ONLY drive his hummer 3 days a week…well, life really must suck for someone such as that.
August 5th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Good thing it’s cute because otherwise no one would care…
August 5th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
The good news about the lowland gorillas reminds me of the Sperm Whales found off of Cape Cod a few years back. The scientists at Wood’s Hole, pride themselves on their knowledge of local animal and aquatic life. They take particular pride in knowing much about actual individual sperm whales. They have books full of discriptions and photos of barnicles used to ID each whale.
The US Navy turned over sonar readings to Wood’s Hole after the fall of the Soviet Union. While searching for Soviet submarines, the crew members also recorded the soundings of the whales. And of course they named them and could, year after year, track their migrations using the sonar.
Well, the researchers started trying to match up the soundings to their records; to get a better picture of the entire sperm whale population. They ended up with a few sonar recordings they couldn’t match up. It didn’t concern them greatly.
About 5 years ago, some fishermen out of Glouchester were off George’s Banks and encountered a sizeable pod of sperm whales. They called it in, as they really shouldn’t have been where they were at that time. The Coast Guard responded and took photos. And get this….Not one of the photos matched the photos Wood’s Hole had.
Ok……to make a long story short, investigation showed that these whales were previously unknown to humans. A Pod of about 80 Sperm Whales were out there in the Atlantic for a hundred years or so, totally oblivious to the humans. There were a lot of red faces in the Marine Biology field for a while. Well, I thought it was a cool story. GO Whales!
August 6th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Robert R: Up off our coast in the Yukon and in a lot of the waters in northern Canada you will find Bowhead whales. My son and I were doing some research for a school project of his and we and came across the story of one whale that was “harvested” by a First Nations village. When they were butchering the whale they found the tip of an ivory harpoon that, once studied, apparently came from somewhere in Mass. and was manufactured in the mid to late 1800s - putting the whales age at around 130 years old. Apparently this blew everything out of the water (so to speak) on what they thought they knew about them and at this point they don’t know how long they can live - some estimates are as long as 200 years.
August 6th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Brian: All I can say is wow.
I have some photos of a mother sperm whale and her calf I took in 1975. This was not on a whale watch. This was on a smallish boat. I recently found them and will scan them into my computer and send your son (and you) a coupleif you wish. Or I will probably be better off getting a Photo account somewhere. (duh) You’ve made me think that maybe that little calf and his/her mom are still out there.
August 6th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Guess what - the Inuit knew it all along through stories and their prefered way of passing on history - and the scientific community is just finding out now. If you like - call me at my office at the City of Whitehorse - be glad to share a few pictures and some stories. If you have neve been up here you should - I came up and vowed to come back and live here - not a lot of places left like this in the world.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
RR - Boy - I am mixing up my tenses so either it’s time to stop with the merlot or just stop typing - I do live here after returning in the fall of 2007- and I’m not leaving. One of my kids photographs is on the CBC website - I think it is called Birds,Bucks, Bears. and is one of their sites where you contribute your pictures of wildlife - she took a shot out the window of a mother grizzly and cub a few weeks ago - not bad for a $60 HP digital!
August 6th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Brian- Unfortunately i’m disabled and can’t get around much anymore. I stick close to New England now. The Maine Woods is where I feel comfortable. I’ll scan those photos in and post a link to it. You can get my e-mail there if you want. Yeah, i’m big on rescued dogs and bird feeding. The deer, I have to lure away from my house with salt licks etc, to keep them out of the road.
It distresses me to see so many animals suffering, but I take some solace in the fact that new species are also being discovered every day . I fear we don’t know as much as we think we do….
August 6th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Quoting Robert R: “I fear we don’t know as much as we think we do…,”
Yep, I fear the same thing. Our scientific and analytical minds always thinking that we can formulate answers to some of the worlds oldest questions and mysteries…mother nature works in her own ways at her own pace. I fear that humanities biggest downfall will be to question and remain ignorant to nature’s own intelligence.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Well, yeah. We need to be humble and do what we can. As I get older, I have the advantage to see some patterns being worked out and see the ebb and flow of things. Maybe I have a little more faith in my fellow humans now, as compared to when I was younger! Then, I was as rabid and outraged as any animal rights person around! What changes people, I think, is the satisfaction of taking care of your animals, your neighborhood etc. You can see what a difference you can make to some ole’ stray cat as you sneak a little food out for him. (and being a cat, he won’t thank you.) I think many of us geezers turn our rage into guilty donations. When you get a few bucks, you send it out to the causes you always supported by carrying signs! You know, the job of youth is to push and rebel against the geezers - but try and see their point of view, also! Bob
August 6th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Robert: you could do a lot worse than New England and the woods of Maine. If you ever feel inclined to go way way west and visit the Yulon and Alaska - please fire off an email to me - we love to show the place off.
When I was a boy my step-dad, who is military historian, introduced me to the story of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and I consider him one of my “heroes”.
Take care.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Bob - Well, I’m still a fence sitter…not old enough to take on that perspective in it’s totality but old enough to understand it. I still fear about certain disasters and whatnot, but I’ve found that as I get older and now that I have a family that first you heal yourself, then your family, then your community and then the world. I started with myself and realized that there are only so many things within my own control and I’ve also found that by doing a lot of community work and reading lots of articles from all over the world, our society is starting to slowly wake up and do their part. There are tons of resources out there to help the future, if only we are willing to find out the solutions.
There are also tons of books being produced now on global warming that deal with consumer choices and empowering the reader to understand that it is our own individual choices we make when we consume that ultimately change how the market produces and functions. And also by doing so, we help support our own communities. So I guess you could say I’m settling down in certain areas, but I still worry about the power hungry multi - billionaires and their many distractions, you can’t explain to them the little things.