Ugly All Around

rbj said 160 days ago:

Please! Who gives a fuck what race he is! Put a fucking bullit in his head and be done with it!
If he’s insane, great then he won’t notice the bullit will he? If this was my brother or my son, seeing this freak spend his life in jail wouldn’t even come close to being justice.
Capital punishment is to good for people like this, I say boil him in oil slowly!

Doug said 160 days ago:

This is a a real tragedy, my heart goes out to Tim Mcleans family.

And while I understand how some want retribution in cases like this, it’s much more important to rise above the kind of behaviour that took a young mans life.

Jon Dehm said 160 days ago:

Your link to the CBC isn’t working for me.

I can’t believe people would bring race into something like this, as if to imply certain races are more insane/murderous than others.

lovebuzz2007 said 160 days ago:

ya i would hate to see capital punishment return to the canadian justice system. i will not pretend to understand what tim mcclean’s family & friends are going through but i certainly feel for them, as this was a horrific and heart breaking crime. It’s almost unbelievable, it seems like something that would happen in a movie, it’s really unbearable, just a tragedy.

rbj said 160 days ago:

Honest to god I really don’t care. There’s no redemption for people like this. It’s like you said everyone is entiltled to their opinion, and since I’m not one of the ass kissing suck ups on this site who seem so desperate for your approval. My opinion won’t change.

[quote comment="60315"][quote comment="60309"]Please! Who gives a fuck what race he is! Put a fucking bullit in his head and be done with it!
If he’s insane, great then he won’t notice the bullit will he? If this was my brother or my son, seeing this freak spend his life in jail wouldn’t even come close to being justice.
Capital punishment is to good for people like this, I say boil him in oil slowly![/quote]

We live in a nation where bullets aren’t put into heads. I am also ‘technically crazy’, and I can assure you that I would notice. I am not defending that man’s actions at all, but I don’t really want to join the United States in being the last two country’s in the Western world that still put people to death.[/quote]

jessi.tessier said 160 days ago:

I don’t care whether Matt agrees with what I thought about your comment. I felt it was inappropriate and a tad ignorant. We don’t kill ‘insane’ people anymore. I feel for the family of Tim McLean but the man who killed him is disturbed. And Tar and Feathering is no longer popular, thankfully.

Amanda Kyffin said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60318"]Honest to god I really don’t care. There’s no redemption for people like this. It’s like you said everyone is entitled to their opinion, and since I’m not one of the ass kissing suck ups on this site who seem so desperate for your approval. My opinion won’t change.[/quote]

You may not be an ‘ass kissing suck up’ but you’re sure a sick mother fucker.
You’re not going to get anywhere with that mentality. You going in the wrong direction.
You want to be responsible for taking a life???
Think about it for a bit.

… I heard about the incident this morning, and I know exactly where you’re coming from. When the person was telling me about the stabbing they seemed to have thought it necessary to include the fact that he was a “native man”. This is of course a piece of information that means nothing to me, however the individual telling me started assuming that it must’ve been a hate crime against “white people”. I did call the person on this, insisting that whether the race of the person who committed the crime means nothing to me.

I know we do not have capital punishment in our country, but I absolutely disagree with it, the system is flawed. However, when it comes to ‘what these people deserve’ is where I loose track. Showed people who rape and murder children consistently still be able to enjoy living? However, I know that I could never take a life so why should I leave it up to someone else?

rbj said 160 days ago:

No problem.
[quote comment="60322"][quote comment="60318"]Honest to god I really don’t care. There’s no redemption for people like this. It’s like you said everyone is entiltled to their opinion, and since I’m not one of the ass kissing suck ups on this site who seem so desperate for your approval. My opinion won’t change.

[quote comment="60315"][quote comment="60309"]Please! Who gives a fuck what race he is! Put a fucking bullit in his head and be done with it!
If he’s insane, great then he won’t notice the bullit will he? If this was my brother or my son, seeing this freak spend his life in jail wouldn’t even come close to being justice.
Capital punishment is to good for people like this, I say boil him in oil slowly![/quote]

We live in a nation where bullets aren’t put into heads. I am also ‘technically crazy’, and I can assure you that I would notice. I am not defending that man’s actions at all, but I don’t really want to join the United States in being the last two country’s in the Western world that still put people to death.[/quote][/quote]

Then I would like to see you be the one to pull the trigger.[/quote]

Orangepekoe said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60315"][quote comment="60309"]Please! Who gives a fuck what race he is! Put a fucking bullit in his head and be done with it!
If he’s insane, great then he won’t notice the bullit will he? If this was my brother or my son, seeing this freak spend his life in jail wouldn’t even come close to being justice.
Capital punishment is to good for people like this, I say boil him in oil slowly![/quote]

We live in a nation where bullets aren’t put into heads. I am also ‘technically crazy’, and I can assure you that I would notice. I am not defending that man’s actions at all, but I don’t really want to join the United States in being the last two country’s in the Western world that still put people to death.[/quote]

The “bullett in his head” comment is insane in itself. I would notice…. I already have.

calgarykeri said 160 days ago:

Im not sure if any of you are on facebook and joined the group R.I.P Tim Mclean earlier today, but I had and what some people were posting on there was absolutley discusting. Within a matter of hours there is close to 18,000 members and there was around 2100 wall posts. Some people were leaving really disturbing messages aswell as horrible pictures and videos.
In my lifetime I would have never thought something so absolutly horrific and gruesome would ever happen. I cannot begin to imagine how this is effecting those that are a part of Tims life aswell as the people that were on the bus.
As far as it goes for the person that did this.. I am at a loss for words……..

Amanda Kyffin said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60328"][quote comment="60325"]No problem.
[quote comment="60322"][quote comment="60318"]Honest to god I really don’t care. There’s no redemption for people like this. It’s like you said everyone is entiltled to their opinion, and since I’m not one of the ass kissing suck ups on this site who seem so desperate for your approval. My opinion won’t change.

[quote comment="60315"][quote comment="60309"]Please! Who gives a fuck what race he is! Put a fucking bullit in his head and be done with it!
If he’s insane, great then he won’t notice the bullit will he? If this was my brother or my son, seeing this freak spend his life in jail wouldn’t even come close to being justice.
Capital punishment is to good for people like this, I say boil him in oil slowly![/quote]

We live in a nation where bullets aren’t put into heads. I am also ‘technically crazy’, and I can assure you that I would notice. I am not defending that man’s actions at all, but I don’t really want to join the United States in being the last two country’s in the Western world that still put people to death.[/quote][/quote]

Then I would like to see you be the one to pull the trigger.[/quote][/quote]

By saying as much you have indicated that you, yourself, have no problem with becoming a murderer.[/quote]

They would only become what they are ‘trying to stop’. Murder is murder is murder.
Although I am not a pacifist the saying “an eye for an eye only leave the whole world blind” certainly applies here.

Susan McEwan said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60325"]No problem.

That is why I am thankful we live in a country where, were you to do so, you would be held accountable for your crime, likely to an even higher standard than the man you would so easily execute. Because although some might disagree, you seem to be in control of your actions and thoughts, and would thus have formed the intent to kill with full knowledge of what you were doing. We don’t yet know if that is the case with the suspect.

It is the fact that we don’t put “bullits” in people’s heads that distinguishes us as a democratic, humane nation.

Justin said 160 days ago:

rbj: Your over-simplified view is disturbing.

The best (or worst, depending) punishment is a life in prison. Why? Because there is a chance at rehabilitation for Li, and he would spend the rest of the life cognizant of what he did–if in fact he isn’t fully cognizant now.

As a fellow human being, while I can’t understand what caused Li to snap, I do want healing for all parties–and I’m wiling to pay my share for whatever processes that it would take–including Li. We can’t prevent many incidents like this by killing the guilty people.

Remember when a man killed a number of Amish children, and the Amish community was quick to offer forgiveness and empathy to the murderer? Some would call it saintly, or even godly, behaviour. Others, like me, would just call it the right thing to do. And no, it’s not easy. The easy–and stupid–thing to do is to give in to the anger, the hatred, and the blatant ignorance and call for another murder.

And for what it’s worth, rbj, the spelling is b-u-l-l-e-t.

davey said 160 days ago:

I think it’s safe to assume that any defense lawyer worth his salt is going to plead insanity in a case like this. It would be absolutely terrible and a huge blow to family and friends if Mr.Li was found not criminally responsible…

I am a huge advocate for mental health issues and am making my career in the field, but I don’t think that any amount of mental illness could justify what happened.

I do however want to stress that generalization in this case is just not realistic. I know and work with several people who have been found not criminally responsible for crimes they have committed and they are truly great people worthy of the same respect I would give any other human being.

Penny Royal said 160 days ago:

The man who killed Tim McLean is clearly mentally disturbed, though it is yet to be determined in what way. This is not to say everyone who has mental problems have the capacity to do this, far from it. But anyone who commits a crime as vile as this does not think on a rational level.

I think we can all emphasize with the knee jerk reaction to want to get revenge on someone who commits these acts. That is just human nature. However, to truly and honestly feel the desire to kill or torture those people and not see how that is about as useless as shouting against thunder, is incorrect. The fact is, as much as all of us may be infuriated at this person for what he has done, the victim’s family is hurting the most. Eventually the only real way they will ever recieve some peace is to forgive. It sounds cheezy–I get that. But anytime we are hurt by someone to any degree, (this of course being the greatest degree), we do ourselves a disservice but allowing ourselves to be changed and eaten up by our anger.

I think many of us have been trying to put ourselves in the position of the family but don’t forget about the victim’s perspective. I clearly didn’t know the victim in any way. But I can imagine if I had been the victim in this case I would not want my loved ones to be forever tortured by their anger and sadness. I would hope that they would find a way to move on and release that hatred.

Brian Smart said 160 days ago:

A few years ago I attended a 9-1-1 call with my partner while I was doing some “police work”: as as an “observer” or “consultant”. In those days you did not attend every call- meaning if someone called back and said eveything was OK “I just hit 4-1-1- instead of 9-1-1 so don’t bother coming” then we didn’t. That changed one day after this call. We attended a call where a woman had called in reporting a domestic disturbance. When I arrived with my partner, there was a little kid sitting outside on a mattress in his underwear - it was about 2c - and we both knew something was wrong. We went in and - long story short - the husband had caught his wife calling for help - jerked the phone out of the wall - and nearly beat her to death with it. She was a bloody unconcsious mess on the floor. Truth be told - I wanted to kill him.

It appears that the “facts” of this one are pretty clear - but I don’t suppose that we know everything. I just know that know I felt that day, and how my partner and I felt afterward - and in every other shitty circumsance that we faced after that - was this:

Putting a bullit in that guy’s head won’t bring that kid back. That is not what we do in my country and personally, it is not why I did what I did in support of keeping the peace. I can comfortabl speak for my parner and say that we did this job to prevent, not to take part in that kind of barbarism. If you think that blowing this guy away would be so easy you then you have been wathcing too many movies.

It is called humanity and, as tough as it may be sometimes, to do this would make you no better than those that you would condemn. It does not solve ANYTHING.

David Milgaard, etc., etc. etc.

Orangepekoe said 160 days ago:

@rbj. You’re almost as close to disregarding the value of life as the “suspect”. I think if you were to kill the killer, you may also be labelled “insane” as most people (”technically crazy” or not) would be able to rationalize, and recognize the value of life- and NOT do it. Period.
Don’t you see that similarity?

Susan McEwan said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60339"]I think it’s safe to assume that any defense lawyer worth his salt is going to plead insanity in a case like this. It would be absolutely terrible and a huge blow to family and friends if Mr.Li was found not criminally responsible…[/quote]

IF the suspect is assessed as truly not having been able to form the intent to kill, to understand right from wrong, etc. at the time of the act (assessed by forensic mental health professionals, not the media or us in the general population, not even by the lawyers or justice system) then it would not be “terrible” for him to be found Not Criminally Responsible by reason of a Mental Disorder (NCRMD), it would be APPROPRIATE. As for how anything will be perceived by the victim’s family, I would never claim to be able to predict such a thing. As Justin pointed out, the Amish community forgave the man who shot and killed their residents. I think people are confusing our justice system with a VENGEANCE system. For the victims and families, there will likely never be enough of anything to give them peace. The public needs to be protected, that’s why we lock people up. However, the mentally ill need to be treated. And if, after such treatment, they are assessed as not being a danger, then they have the right to live their lives as the rest of us. We don’t punish people for things they can’t control, no matter how unpalatable that may be for others.

Again, we are speculating; we have no idea if this man is mentally ill and/or NCRMD. This is where the system kicks in, hopefully absent the emotion that has run rampant over the past two days. I fully understand people’s emotional reactions—I cried–but we have to separate that from the justice system and rely on the Charter and the legal foundations we have in this country.

Susan McEwan said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60346"]It appears that the “facts” of this one are pretty clear - but I don’t suppose that we know everything. I just know that know I felt that day, and how my partner and I felt afterward - and in every other shitty circumsance that we faced after that - was this:

Putting a bullit in that guy’s head won’t bring that kid back. That is not what we do in my country and personally, it is not why I did what I did in support of keeping the peace. I can comfortabl speak for my parner and say that we did this job to prevent, not to take part in that kind of barbarism. If you think that blowing this guy away would be so easy you then you have been wathcing too many movies.

It is called humanity and, as tough as it may be sometimes, to do this would make you no better than those that you would condemn. It does not solve ANYTHING.

David Milgaard, etc., etc. etc.[/quote]

Excellent comment, and with such power given your experiences. Thank you for your ability to remain “humane” despite what you’ve seen.

susan said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60345"]Hey thanks for the spell check. It’s not like this guy just killed someone, he cut his head off! I just can’t get past that. I don’t care who he is or why he did it. That young mans family will never heal.

[quote comment="60336"]rbj: Your over-simplified view is disturbing.

The best (or worst, depending) punishment is a life in prison. Why? Because there is a chance at rehabilitation for Li, and he would spend the rest of the life cognizant of what he did–if in fact he isn’t fully cognizant now.

As a fellow human being, while I can’t understand what caused Li to snap, I do want healing for all parties–and I’m wiling to pay my share for whatever processes that it would take–including Li. We can’t prevent many incidents like this by killing the guilty people.

Remember when a man killed a number of Amish children, and the Amish community was quick to offer forgiveness and empathy to the murderer? Some would call it saintly, or even godly, behaviour. Others, like me, would just call it the right thing to do. And no, it’s not easy. The easy–and stupid–thing to do is to give in to the anger, the hatred, and the blatant ignorance and call for another murder.

And for what it’s worth, rbj, the spelling is b-u-l-l-e-t.[/quote][/quote]

Opps, I fucked up that post. This was the quote. I wasn’t quoting myself…

D. Lilly said 160 days ago:

So answer me this everybody. If found sane, and if convicted, how long should he remain locked up?

In the U.S. if he were found to be insane, he would likely be institutionalized for the rest of his life.

Susan McEwan said 160 days ago:

[quote comment="60360"]So answer me this everybody. If found sane, and if convicted, how long should he remain locked up?

In the U.S. if he were found to be insane, he would likely be institutionalized for the rest of his life.[/quote]

If sane and guilty, life sentence (on 2nd degree I think you can apply for parole after 15 yrs, but due to the nature of the crime, a parole board would probably have a hard time letting him out).

If NCRMD then he should be detained in a secure setting (locked up) until he no longer poses a threat to the public. That might mean he would be locked up forever, or it might mean he would be “out” in a year. although again, due to the nature of the crime, any Review Board would likely err on the side of caution and put some very stringent conditions on any release, which they could do for the rest of his life.

Either way, I don’t think it is likely this man will be walking amongst the public for an extremely long time, if ever.

deb said 160 days ago:

I haven’t read the comments…just really felt the need to add my two cents first.

This is a horrible, tragic, unthinkable thing that has happened. But somehow, something deep down in me always questions the extremely troubled/desperate individual capable of doing something like this. As much as I am horrified by this, I just can’t help but wonder what went wrong for him? What turned him into such a monster? I can’t hate someone based on this…because that would be wasted energy. How does a person become a shell with nothing inside?

Death won’t hurt this man…he’s obviously already dead inside.

cook27 said 160 days ago:

What is one’s perception of justice?
Is it eye for an eye? Is it held within the context of the written law of the land?
Or is it just what makes us all feel a little less scared and/or threatened?

I gotta say, it is moments like these where I personally have a crisis of conscience.
Kill him? Boot-fuck him? Make him live his last few moments in agony and fear?
Geezus! It is all just so damned sick!
How does any of this make payment for his actions?
Obviously the deterrent argument for the pro-capital punishment crowd is a bust because PEOPLE STILL KILL PEOPLE!
But for those opposed….I wonder how they feel knowing that some of their hard-earned tax dollars are paying for Clifford Olsen’s university degree.

There are only these facts:
-What this man did is abominable.
-We will all have nightmares in the coming days about this event, but NOTHING like what the McLean family, or those who witnessed it, will have rooted in their minds for the rest of their lives.

jeff_jackson said 160 days ago:

I was as shocked to hear this news as everyone on this site. I feel a great sense of regret for Tim McLean’s family. He truly did not deserve to die such a horrible death. At the same time I truly feel calling for the death of the perpetrator Li is shooting ourselves in the foot. Canadians need to devote their energies to what caused this unfortunate incident. I hope that while it is easy for folks close to the McLean family to want to seek immediate retribution for Tim’s murder to instead focus upon helping the family heal and try to get them through this difficult time. In this day and age it is too easy to seek an eye for an eye and I don’t think I’m alone when I say that recent history has proven this behaviour to be the wrong approach to creating a lasting peace anywhere.

Emily Plunkett said 159 days ago:

I am, in no way, in support of the death penilty, especially in this case.

As fucked up as the case may be, the death penility is still hate at it’s purest form, and I do not subscribe to hate. If he is criminally responsible, than killing him would just continue the cycle of hate and would prove nothing. If he’s criminally to blame for his actions, than he needs to be imprisoned, probably for life.

If he’s found NCRMD, than he needs to be insitiutionalized until there’s enough certainty that he won’t re-commit, and even then, I don’t think I’d trust him to really conduct his business without some kind of supervision. Not that those of us who suffer from mental illnesses all need to be watched closely, but in the extreme cases, than yes, humanity should be shown. You wouldn’t leave a cancer patient on their own when it becomes appearent they’re not going to heal. Why throw this guy out to the gutter for something that just can’t be healed?

Mark Mallett said 159 days ago:

As stated in the other thread - he shouldn’t have gotten of the bus alive.

Armed and obviously dangerous. In past cases people have been shot and killed for holding such threatening weapons as simple as a broomstick. Killed in ignorance, a truly sad situation.

This case is obvious in its facts to date - that he didn’t give the law an opportunity to kill him in itself proves his ability to make decisions.

How insane is a person who can purchase a bus ticket. Sit on the bus and converse, stop for a smoke break and get back on changing his seat to better place himself for his deed.

His actions reported thus far as stated by other passengers have already painted a picture of someone capable of making decisions.

Of course it is too late to kill him now - we have a justice system to deal with him now.

He still doesn’t deserve his life - he is forfeit and yet he has luckily escaped that punishment.

Now his punishment is living with what he did - how just.

Black and white works fine for me - but the chance for that way of thinking passed us all by.

Now we can argue his actions endlessly while the media feeds off this horrible incident.

And who gets all the debate and press - the killer and the victims fate will fade - his family and friends will fade and all we will have left is our sympathy for the poor man that couldn’t control himself and decided that on that fateful day he would stab a person to death and remove his head.

Killing him would have been easier for all of us - a just solution to an obvious crime - cheaper too from a tax payers standpoint.

A family in this country is missing a child - they may not cry out for death but I can honestly say that there would be very few of us screaming for justice if the killer had died that day.

My heart still hurts for that child - that is all the reason I need to feel no sympathy for his murderer.

And yes that could have been my child and yes I would prefer that man dead.

Hope dwindles with every senseless death.

And they are commonplace in our world.

How sad is that……

Minivan mom said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60360"]So answer me this everybody. If found sane, and if convicted, how long should he remain locked up?

In the U.S. if he were found to be insane, he would likely be institutionalized for the rest of his life.[/quote]

Good question Dan. My personal feeling is that when it comes to the crime of taking another life; and if found guilty in a court of law, the punishment “life”, should mean just that: Life behind bars, for the rest of your life.
I don’t approve of the “let’s make a deal” games that are occurring in our court rooms across the country on a daily basis. (Yes, I know how clogged our court system is, and how full our jails are).

Amanda Kyffin said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60374"]Capital punishment should be reinstated. There are obviously some exceptions to this, but if you kill a person in a particularly heinous fashion, then you have forfeited your right to live. It might make people think twice before decapitating people (though in this case I somehow doubt it) I am for it, especially since our courts have this habit of giving the criminal the benefit of the doubt. Our justice system is in terrible condition. Only in Canada can you attack a person with an ax and put that person in a wheel chair for life and get 20 months house arrest. We need a serious re-evaluation of our justice system.

Oh, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the murderer in this case walks free after a few years…will probably get out early on “good” behavior…[/quote]

I understand your idea that ‘if you’ve killed a person you’ve forfeited your right to live’… especially in horrific crimes. But I do not want to be responsible for someones life being taken, its not a choice I want to make, and not a choice I feel others should be able to make either. It won’t accomplish anything.

But Capital Punishment is a faulty system; its sexist (yes, sexism towards men-identified persons), classiest, and racist. You also have to take into consideration the fact that there have been far too many recorded incidents of innocent lives that have been taken through the system or of lives that have been taken off death row because of new evidence proving their innocence… in fact I find the whole prison system to be faulty and it obviously isn’t getting us anywhere…
But I’m not going to get into that…
With the death penalty others are making a decision for a person to die, they are supporting the death of another individual, they are then responsible for this persons death… whether physically or not.
I agree that Canada’s ‘punishment’ system is super flawed… but reinstating a death penalty I assure you wouldn’t change a thing.

Fearless4 said 159 days ago:

My brother lives with bipolar disorder and he has been arrested on more than one occasion for violent and disruptive behaviour while in the grip of a manic episode. My family has often lived in fear of that phone call where we’re informed that he has been hurt or hurt another. There is a feeling of powerlessness when you live in a society where mental illness is not taken as seriously as it should be. When properly taking his meds, my brother is harmless, but we live with the understanding that he could “snap” and be capable of something terrible.

I would not want him put to death because of a general failure of the public to understand his illness.

I think it’s absolutely obvious that something’s “wrong” with someone who takes the life of another, either mentally or morally, as in this terrible Greyhound bus incident, and it’s not an easy task to determine cause or intent.

Instinctually and animalistically, our impulse is revenge and retribution. Thankfully, we’re smart enough to rise above our instinct and seek understanding and prevention. This is a terrible situation but our focus must be on understanding the cause, learn from it, and prevent its reoccurance in any way possible.

Susan McEwan said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60374"]Capital punishment should be reinstated. There are obviously some exceptions to this, but if you kill a person in a particularly heinous fashion, then you have forfeited your right to live. It might make people think twice before decapitating people (though in this case I somehow doubt it) I am for it, especially since our courts have this habit of giving the criminal the benefit of the doubt. Our justice system is in terrible condition. Only in Canada can you attack a person with an ax and put that person in a wheel chair for life and get 20 months house arrest. We need a serious re-evaluation of our justice system.

Oh, and I wouldnt be surprised if the murderer in this case walks free after a few years…will probably get out early on “good” behaviour…[/quote]

You have captured the whole problem with capital punishment in your first sentence “there are obviously some exceptions to this…”. What exceptions? Who decides? Why is killing someone in a “heinous” fashion worse than outright killing them? So, if he had just leaned over and quietly put his arm around the victim’s neck and strangled him, that would somehow be better? Me thinks not so much for the victim’s family; the boy is still gone. As for our system having this “habit of giving the criminal the benefit of the doubt”, ya, it’s called “innocent until proven guilty”. Pretty much a hallmark of our system (unlike say, Guantanamo or other American violations of human rights).

Please understand: none of what I am saying in any way is meant to excuse the suspect for his actions, or to minimize the horror of this event, especially for the victim’s family. It is to highlight that we have a Charter, we have a commitment to human rights and civil liberties and a justice system that is designed to act objectively, to NOT act on emotion. We also have a system that recognizes that those people who are mentally ill require treatment first, at the same time as recognizing the need for the protection of the public. Punishment is not an element in this system, and although that might not satisfy a great many people, it again is one characteristic of Canada that makes us a humane country.

If my brother or sister or someone I was close to was a victim of crime, I too might be hell-bent on destruction and vengeance. That’s why I am glad there is a system in place that would not make me responsible for the outcome. Justice, vengeance, punishment are all different things, and we need to remember that the emotions that are driving us for a particular outcome are visceral; they are not objective and should not be mistaken for rational thought. It’s okay to feel a certain way, of course, however translating that feeling into action is where problems occur….ie: the whole cycle of violence….

Emotionally Crippled said 159 days ago:

I don’t think people agree to gain Matthew’s favor. I think it’s more of people already have the same personal views as him. Hence the visitation to this site to read the similar minded posts. I agree with Matthew, it’s why I visit his site, read his blogs/posts. I don’t crane for approval from him, I just agree with him.

On what happened, it’s completely and utterly sick. I think it is a case of a mind snapping in two. When I read the mans name, I thought about what the “I don’t mean to be racist but..” type of people would say.

Tuuli22 said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60309"]Please! Who gives a fuck what race he is! Put a fucking bullit in his head and be done with it!
If he’s insane, great then he won’t notice the bullit will he? If this was my brother or my son, seeing this freak spend his life in jail wouldn’t even come close to being justice.
Capital punishment is to good for people like this, I say boil him in oil slowly![/quote]

rbj, honestly, I have rarely witnessed something more inhuman and coldblooded running out a persons mind. You present yourself as an outspoken opponent to the liberal, democratic nature of the country you live in. Otherwise you wouldn’t cry for denying this poor creature its basic rights. Whatever he has done, he still and is a human individual that maybe even instantly needs medical treatment.
In my home country we knew dark times, when death was first choice for mentally ill people sanctioned by law and such times I hope I will never have to experience myself!

Yea, fucking godwin… but this was simply the first thing that came to my mind, watching this guy ranting about ill people in a somewhat respectless manner.

Nothingman said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60374"]Capital punishment should be reinstated. There are obviously some exceptions to this, but if you kill a person in a particularly heinous fashion, then you have forfeited your right to live. It might make people think twice before decapitating people (though in this case I somehow doubt it) I am for it, especially since our courts have this habit of giving the criminal the benefit of the doubt. Our justice system is in terrible condition. Only in Canada can you attack a person with an ax and put that person in a wheel chair for life and get 20 months house arrest. We need a serious re-evaluation of our justice system.[/quote]

The funny thing about the death penalty is that it doesn’t actually deter anyone. Of course my sources could be wrong, but several of my professors have stated in class that there is, in fact, a small INCREASE in violent crime immediately after an execution occurs, then it generally levels off again. Also, by your standard of killing murderers who kill in a “particularly heinous fashion”, you’re leaving a whole lot up to personal discretion. This case is obviously pretty extreme, but what about those that a bit more blurry. Perhaps he had just stabbed him 50 times, but didn’t cut off his head. Does that justify execution? What if he had only stabbed him 49 times? 48? At some point, you need to draw a completely arbitrary line to define particularly heinous.

A lot of people also talk about how it’s a “waste of our tax dollars” to keep this man alive, hence the death penalty is a cost effective measure. Except that the average death sentence costs more than life without parole. A great deal more is spent on trials where the death penalty is sought, and on top of that is all the appeals. Take into account that, in the US, many of these sentences are overturned, and money is being thrown away, just because some people want the satisfying feeling of revenge.

When it comes down to it, there are no practical reasons for capital punishment. It simply exists to satisfy the eye-for-an-eye mentality. We can go on all we want about how he “gave up his right to live when he killed that boy”, but it takes a killer to kill, regardless of whether the victim is guilty or innocent.

Jane Smith said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60390"]I used to believe in capital punishment when I was in high school, but then I realized that my whole idea of a legal system seemed to revolve around revenge…and that is a terrible basis for a legal system. Don’t get me wrong, there are times when I feel like this guy deserves to die, but when I take a breath and think about it, I realize it’s not my choice to make.[/quote]
You’ve summed it up in your last eight words…

Mike Pew said 159 days ago:

I could also have brought up some examples of how supposedly “humane” lethal injections may not be as painless as people might like to hope. My civics teacher mentioned it to my class in 2005 and I remembered it today.

After a quick google search I found an article from the Washington Post from 2005.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54799-2005Apr14.html

“Critics argue that the paralyzing agent, which several states have banned veterinarians from using, might mask severe pain.”

That’s quite a blow to anyone that wants to claim that capital punishment can somehow be humane.

Mark79 said 159 days ago:

[quote comment="60331"]The fact that so many people feel putting this man to death is justified, is almist as sickening as his crime., to me. Why do death penalty advocates feel superior enough to kill a human being and not see it as murder? Because the law says its ok to kill guilty people? Shouldn’t we have a higher moral standard and realize that no matter which way you slice it, in both instances a human life is taken from this world at the hands of another human being?

I don’t know, I’m just disgusted all around.[/quote]

They feel superior enough for the same reason we all feel superior to animals and have no qualms killing them. And we do that for multiple reasons.
And that guy, btw, is much more of a savage animal, then what we all normally think of as animals. In fact I’m pretty much insulting them by this comparison.
I dont want to turn the debate around or anything, but we murder all the time and dont feel the need to do anything about it, because we dont see it as being murder. It’s still the taking of a life, no matter how far superior you feel you are.
So we’re all part of the same hypocrisy.