From A Different Perspective
September 8, 2008, Matthew Good I was rereading my entry from yesterday regarding Biden debating Palin, which I have since revised, and it got me thinking…
All trivialities aside, we’re ultimately talking about a nation that twice elected George W. Bush (though his initial win is certainly disputed by many). True, John Kerry wasn’t the strongest candidate in 2004, but it shouldn’t be overlooked that when Bush faced Gore, who had vastly more experience having been Vice President for eight years, Bush, then the Governor of Texas, was still able to defeat him. Not in the popular vote, mind you, but that’s irrelevant in the end.
The simple fact of the matter is, if we’re to take recent political precedents into consideration, Sarah Palin could have been operating a hotdog stand five years ago. To those within the Republican party (and without) that are aligned with her conservative religious ideals, all that matters is that she is on the ticket. Scandal, corruption – these are things that don’t matter. As long as she represents the beliefs of the religious right her faults can be disregarded or defended by warped contradictions. The bottom line is that she promotes those beliefs and is therefore viewed by that segment of the party as an 11th hour saving grace.
Were reason to factor into this election, how would it be possible for the McCain campaign to defend the last eight years of Republican rule? The answer is that it can’t, which is why McCain staffers have been going on national news programs and openly stating that this election is about leadership, not the issues. While employing ambiguities about fiscal responsibility, for example, they make sure to avoid the reality that the Bush Administration has produced one of the largest national deficits in US history. Rather than addressing the realities of what is actually transpiring in Iraq they immediately evoke McCain’s tenure at the Hanoi Hilton as if that were an actual answer.
If the President endorses Mr. McCain then, at some point, parallels must be drawn between them. Unfortunately, they won’t be, and the McCain camp will work to ensure that that doesn’t happen. For every assertion made in the forthcoming debates, both Republican candidates will employ the same tactic – they will turn issues into attacks on their opponent’s records while defending their own with convolutions. Lest we not forget, the language employed in the 2004 Presidential debates was later determined to be at an elementary school level to ensure that those watching were not confused. Given Obama and Biden’s intellect, the Republicans will surely capitalize on that as well. Because the smarter of the two doesn’t win, the less confusing of the two does, even if they, themselves, employ convolutions. As long as those convolutions seem to make rudimentary sense then they might as well be direct answers.
Even worse – fact.
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Well put. Those on the religious, moral right have simple criteria for electability.
Anti-abortion check
No gay marriage check
Pro-Jesus check
Guns for everyone check
Because when you hold a certain understanding of the world, you only answer to God.
Freedom? That’s an earthly thing
Equality? That’s an earthly thing
It doesn’t matter how many people have died from your failed policies abroad (they aren’t Christians anyway), how corrupt you are or how many freedoms you have compromised.
Unfortunatety for the Democrats, I think they have another candidate that is too smart for his own good.
I was drunk the second time Bush won. When it was all said & done, I thought my roommate was kidding. I really did. Then I wanted to go out and kick the shit out of everyone who voted Nader.
When it comes to Presidential elections…. clearly common sense is the least common type available.
“Conservative religious ideals” is a phrase that makes me utterly uncomfortable. Apparently I prefer the more liberal, heathen variety. Truthfully, this election has me stumped and in my mind, I may be voting for the lesser of two evils. The hard part is that it is sort of a mixed batch, no?
I can see little points all around as both positives an negatives. I can deal with a stuffy suit but cannot tolerate dragging narrowmindedness into it. Experience, change. Stability, growth.
We need to get back on track, which if Gore would have trumped Bush eight years ago, I do believe things would be much better. Not great, but better. For everyone, not just the US.
Voting has always been something I’ve done with pride and now I feel like I’m choosing from the closeout bin. Hey, you think Canada will accept me?
[quote comment="64313"]Anti-abortion check
No gay marriage check
Pro-Jesus check
Guns for everyone check[/quote]
How are guns for everyone even in that same breathe? Okay seriously, foot to ground time.
The second amendment was placed in the Bill of Rights for a major reason. To keep the people in power, not the government, and believe it or not, I really do believe that we’re getting closer and closer to the day when people are going to start taking up those arms against their own government.
Please just try to remember that it was the every-man citizen that fought to free the USA from the corruption of the English. Please try to remember that one of the first things Adolf Hitler did to impose his will was remove fire arms from the citizens of Germany.
As the vilification of the American people for the election and the re-election of George Bush needs to stop. Of all people I would think you would understand the political system Mr. Good. I’ve talked, argued, agreed and disagreed with many view points on this site and I would think that the understanding that the general populace do not have their vote counted towards President. We do not have a direct election, we vote for local and state leaders only. The President is chosen by those in the electoral college in Washington DC and I can guarantee you not 1% of American Citizens can name any one delegate on that voting committee.
The problem is not that the people are stupid and voting to keep someone as reckless and stupid as George Bush and the leaders of his cabinet in office. The problem is the system. Address that, not the “nation that twice elected George W. Bush.” Because we did not vote him to be the commander in chief, the supreme court handed him the decision in 2000 and in 2004, I would’ve rather seen a mop debating next to Bush on stage.
No, I am not in the least way a social conservative. As someone who was almost an aborted fetus I can proclaim that I support a woman’s right to choose, I believe marriage is an institution that cannot be regulated by this government, I believe that being pro-Jesus means you’re someone who thinks the Bible is anything more than a guideline to live a better life; not the nut jobs that are being produced by the GOP. I think you’ve already gotten the drift of my view on the 2nd amendment.
I’ll leave it here for now.
[quote comment="64326"]Voting has always been something I’ve done with pride and now I feel like I’m choosing from the closeout bin. Hey, you think Canada will accept me?[/quote]
You think somehow we’ve got better options for our upcoming election?
At least (or maybe unfortunately) it goes before the US one, so people won’t be swayed in their voting by who the new American president is.
[quote comment="64330"][quote comment="64326"]Voting has always been something I’ve done with pride and now I feel like I’m choosing from the closeout bin. Hey, you think Canada will accept me?[/quote]
You think somehow we’ve got better options for our upcoming election?
At least (or maybe unfortunately) it goes before the US one, so people won’t be swayed in their voting by who the new American president is.[/quote]
True - I have a friend in Canada that referred to your option as, and I quote, a bunch of clowns. No enviable positions it would seem.
what the fuck are you talking about “elected twice”? In 2000 the vote was decided by the Supreme Court, and in 2004 Kerry conceded. Nobody has been elected in the past 2 American presidential races.
The reason why all these elections are such a farce is because people don’t focus on the main underlying factor: The Electoral system and how it works, and if votes are properly being counted.
So until people focus on the basics of democracy (the casting of a ballot) all this political discourse is just more bull shit to keep us all under the same illusion that participatory democracy actually exists. Canadians should keep a closer eye on the mechanics of our system otherwise we will succumb to the exact same show (if we don’t already).
so yes i’d correct the use of the words “elected twice”.
[quote comment="64327"]
The second amendment was placed in the Bill of Rights for a major reason. To keep the people in power, not the government, and believe it or not, I really do believe that we’re getting closer and closer to the day when people are going to start taking up those arms against their own government.
Please just try to remember that it was the every-man citizen that fought to free the USA from the corruption of the English. Please try to remember that one of the first things Adolf Hitler did to impose his will was remove fire arms from the citizens of Germany.
[/quote]
1. I think that the odds of modern, civilized individuals of a first-world nation organizing and engaging in armed uprising against the government are infinitely small. Moreover, the NEED to do so is even smaller. The government may not always (or even often) represent the desires of the electorate, but they’re nowhere near horrible enough to warrant civil war.
2. Fifty points have been deducted for the Godwin’s Law violation.
someone pointed me in this direction..
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8117853208483879448&ei=AMHFSITkL6fi-QGCjZ27BQ&q=Chris Hedges&hl=en
i agree with him (Chris Hedges) more than i thought i would initially.
Yeah, I totally agreed with you on the initial post and then once I read a comment from another commentator I was forced to look at the whole thing from a different perspective as well.
Matt, now you’ve got it right. Facts, who needs them when the audience just wants a good show. Soon I will be in a country where the Supreme Court is 7-2 (conservative) with McCain’s nominations, Roe vs Wade is gone, girls are hitchhiking to States that permit abortions and we have bomb, bomb Iran. Oh yea, Russia will have taken over the International Space Station and those living their lives as if they’re going to heaven will be happy the world is closer to ‘The Rapture’. Oh, what could have been?
Unfortunately, I have to agree - these elections have nothing to do with logic or reason. Everything that seems shocking to me ie Palin - is the best thing to so many of my fellow Americans.
I don’t understand it. It’s frustrating. But I will vote come November. Because I’m not giving up, no matter how crazy this is getting.
NYmike, I can kinda understand where you are coming from but when does responsibility kick in? As far as saying “the vilification of the American people for the election and the re-election of George Bush needs to stop”
but your country elected him, twice, and you can dance around with excuses all you want, but like I said, when does responsibility kick in? Is it the worlds responsibility to invade your country and over throw the current despot? You talk about an armed uprising, but wouldn’t it be easier to learn about your own political system and make the changes peacefully though the existing system? Is it not a 2 party system there? So wouldn’t you have to vote for a republican for the vote to go to bush or can voting for a republican locally give a vote to Obama? Unless that is the case, the system is not really broken, the system is doing just what it was designed to, the time for excusses has come and gone, take responsibility …. then try an armed uprising or what have you, but the Iraqis still have an AK per household and that haven’t helped them one bit.
No, I wouldn’t. It doesn’t matter what way I voted because the public DOES NOT VOTE for the President nor the electoral college. Nor do I have any say in the Supreme Court’s ruling to give the 2000 election to Bush.
The American public did voice it’s opinion about George Bush, in 2000 the popular (meaningless) vote went to Al Gore. In 2004 the popular (meaningless) vote was also razor thin.
But neither of those results matter, I don’t think you quite understand when I say that the American public has NO SAY on who becomes president outside of your party’s primary. Which is even better for me because I’m a registered Independent and don’t get a say in either the Democratic or Republican Party nomination process.
Revisited, touche on the Godwin’s Law, I stand guilty. But I did not have sexual relations or inhale.
And also agreed with both thejames and Salros.
[quote comment="64336"]what the fuck are you talking about “elected twice”? In 2000 the vote was decided by the Supreme Court, and in 2004 Kerry conceded. Nobody has been elected in the past 2 American presidential races.
so yes i’d correct the use of the words “elected twice”.[/quote]
WHAT? What political election doesn’t end with one party conceding? Kerry, Gore, Dole, HW Bush, Carter, and on…all conceded.
[quote comment="64374"]No, I wouldn’t. It doesn’t matter what way I voted because the public DOES NOT VOTE for the President nor the electoral college. Nor do I have any say in the Supreme Court’s ruling to give the 2000 election to Bush.[/quote]
That’s because the US isn’t a Democracy, it is a Representational Republic. By design.
[quote comment="64374"]The American public did voice it’s opinion about George Bush, in 2000 the popular (meaningless) vote went to Al Gore. In 2004 the popular (meaningless) vote was also razor thin.
But neither of those results matter, I don’t think you quite understand when I say that the American public has NO SAY on who becomes president outside of your party’s primary. [/quote]
That’s so overstated, I’d say it is wrong. In 48 States, if a candidate wins the State’s popular vote, they get all of the Electoral College votes. So, yes, you are not DIRECTLY putting your vote in the hat, someone is doing it for you, but they speak for the State majority. It again goes back to the whole representational government system. AKA NOT true Democracy which is how the Constitution was written.
Not to mention that you technically don’t have a say in the primary process since there are delegates involved there too. So by your account, NO ONE outside of a select 1500-2000 people (party delegates & electoral college) have ANYTHING to do with who becomes President. That may be true in a conspiracy/illuminati thread, but not here.
And Kerry lost by three million popular votes. It sucks, but he lost.
[quote comment="64374"]Which is even better for me because I’m a registered Independent and don’t get a say in either the Democratic or Republican Party nomination process.[/quote]
That’s your State’s fault. Other states have open primaries. Each with their own pros and cons.
Fern… 3 million votes, you make it sound like that’s a huge margin. It’s not. In a nation of 300 million people that’s 1% (if everyone voted). I think the percentage was around 53 for Bush when Kerry conceded.
And yes, that is exactly what I am saying. And no, the popular vote does not influence the Electoral College’s decision any more than a particular delegate lets it. And no, the Constitution was not written for a “true Democracy” that’s not even a term. Direct Democracy or Representational Democracy, the USA has never been and was not established to be a Direct Democracy. So like you so conveniently contradicted yourself, “That’s because the US isn’t a Democracy, it is a Representational Republic. By design.” Then unhinge onto “AKA NOT true Democracy which is how the Constitution was written.” Great job. So by design my government is a Representational Republic but the constitution (the framework for government) was written to be a direct democracy?
And no, I stopped believing that your thought/vote on the issue when an election is handled by the Supreme Court instead of properly counting the votes. The youngest of voters have felt disenfranchised for years by the government, that feeling is starting to spread like wild fire throughout the general populace. Middle class is disappearing and private businesses are being squashed out for corporate giants so consumers can save 45 cents on a bottle of Coca Cola.
Meanwhile the government affords these giant corporations tax breaks and holidays while more manufacturing jobs are shipped to Taiwan so they can force kids to work 18 hour days for $2 a month.
The responsibility needs to start with the government protecting its peoples’ best interests. They aren’t even paying our military members the money promised when they sign up. Where do you think the line should be drawn?
The system is broken and needs to be fixed. I am for many of the reforms that Obama wants to enact to help stabilize the economy, but I am not for big government, I am not for higher taxes, which he will need to enact. I am not for socializing another area of the free market. They’ve done a bang up job bankrupting social security and people want to hand them their health care and well being?
Not me. I don’t even have a say in who my chief executive representative is.
[quote comment="64313"]Well put. Those on the religious, moral right have simple criteria for electability.
Anti-abortion check
No gay marriage check
Pro-Jesus check
Guns for everyone check
Because when you hold a certain understanding of the world, you only answer to God.
Freedom? That’s an earthly thing
Equality? That’s an earthly thing
quote]
just like how those on the “anything goes” left have simple criteria of
abortion check
gay marriage check
Anti-Jesus check
????
[quote comment="64386"]
And yes, that is exactly what I am saying. And no, the popular vote does not influence the Electoral College’s decision any more than a particular delegate lets it. And no, the Constitution was not written for a “true Democracy” that’s not even a term. Direct Democracy or Representational Democracy, the USA has never been and was not established to be a Direct Democracy. So like you so conveniently contradicted yourself, “That’s because the US isn’t a Democracy, it is a Representational Republic. By design.” Then unhinge onto “AKA NOT true Democracy which is how the Constitution was written.” Great job. So by design my government is a Representational Republic but the constitution (the framework for government) was written to be a direct democracy?
[/quote]
I’m sorry that you misunderstood that or read it a different way. Maybe you should calm down when reading because I’m still very hinged. I’ll make my point clear: The US is a representational form of government as drafted in the Constitution. Period. Now back to substance…
I’ve read the pros and cons of the Electoral College system, but rogue delegates was never one of them. Are you saying that a State’s popular vote has zero bearing on how the delegates vote? Either way, can you show your work? I’d say you’re making some pretty wild claims without any proof. In the last 200 years, how many times has the popular vote of a State been discarded by their electoral college delegates?
[quote comment="64386"]
And no, I stopped believing that your thought/vote on the issue when an election is handled by the Supreme Court instead of properly counting the votes. The youngest of voters have felt disenfranchised for years by the government, that feeling is starting to spread like wild fire throughout the general populace. Middle class is disappearing and private businesses are being squashed out for corporate giants so consumers can save 45 cents on a bottle of Coca Cola.
[/quote]
The young voters are disenfranchised? OMG STOP THE PRESSES!!! Do you really think you’re that special? Welcome to the party pal! If you’re a young voter and NOT disenfranchised, something is wrong with you.
If you are an American citizen, you have many opportunities to have a say in who governs you. It starts at the local level. In my case, there is a 5 member Board of Selectmen that governs in my town. I know them personally and have their home phone mumbers. I can be in touch with them by phone or in person within minutes.
Moving up to the State (Massachusetts) level. my Mass State Rep. is from my neighborhood and I know her personally and have her telephone number and her email address. She represents my interests in Boston. My State Senator is from a different town and I do not have contact with her. She and I are at political odds. Shame on me for not writing her and trying to influence her views. Shame on me.
My Member of Congress has an office in Lowell, Mass and represents my interests in the Congress of the United States of America. She is a Democrat and I agree with the way she votes about 50% of the time. I will actively work to unseat her. I will sigh petitions, hold fundraising events, and man the telephone banks on behalf of her opponent.
My Senators are John Kerry and Ted Kennedy; neither of whom I support. I have been raising money for Sen. Kerry’s opponent and will be holding signs on election day.
All this is to say, an american citizen has ample opportunity to influence the politics in his/her life. The closer you are to the lowest level of governence, is the place you can make a difference. I can already ne pretty sure Sen. Obama is going to win Massachusetts’ 11 Electoral votes. Therefore, I can cjoose to vote for him, vote for McCain. vote for a Green Party candidate, a Libertarian or a Socialist, and my vote will have no bearing on the outcome of the election. If I deface my ballot, I also lose the priviledge of voting for all the other aforementioned candidates. Representative government is much more than just voting for President. I’d suggest thinking about acting locally, rather than just throwing my vote away.
[quote comment="64425"]If you are an American citizen, you have many opportunities to have a say in who governs you. It starts at the local level. [/quote]
Exactly. Political change requires effort, patience, and ingenuity, and 99% of Americans simply are not participating. If all you do is vote every 4 years, then you tacitly accept the backroom candidate selection, scripted debates, corporate financing, shady vote tallying, and all the rest. If the Founding Fathers created a democratic republic out of illiterate pioneers, surely someone can do so today.
I don’t see how a handgun under every pillow will help. That is exactly what the White House is most prepared for–didn’t you notice there is a military lockdown whenever the president appears in public? Irregulars may have defeated the antiquated British Army, but they can’t stand up to the bombers, tanks, chemical weapons, etc that the Pentagon has now. To put it another way: US military spending is about $600 billion/year or $2000 per American per year. When the American people spend $2000/year arming themselves, then maybe they’ll have a fighting chance.
Nice points Robert and I agree. The same goes for our government in Canada, I may not have a choice in who becomes Prime Minister, but I also have a choice in who is going to govern me locally. I choose that route as well. Change starts with family, community, state/province, country, and world.