Make That The Full Hour?
September 30, 2008, Matthew Good The Prime Minister is asking that the upcoming debate’s full hour be devoted to the economy, obviously in response to the current crisis in the United States. The NDP is supporting the amendment.
Something that should not escape anyone is the ability to use what is currently transpiring as a tool of political fear. President Bush attempted to cast the crisis in just such a light prior to Congress voting down the proposed bailout package, and he continues to do so. Of course, lost in his rhetoric, and that of many others, is the culpability of those responsible versus those that will ultimately be made to flip the bill – the people.
The United States is our foremost trading partner. But we are not alone in feeling the repercussions, and thus the fear produced, by what is currently transpiring. Markets around the world have been negatively affected by the wanton actions of financial institutions in a single country, and that is something that should not be overlooked. As has been the case for decades, the world’s foremost commodity markets are subject to the strength of the US dollar, and therefore the US economy itself.
One crucial example of US economic dominance is that of the oil market, which is universally represented in US dollars. Not one major oil bourse on the planet exists that trades oil in another currency. Were, for example, Iranian proposals to create an independent bourse controlled by the Euro ever to become a reality the repercussions on the US economy would be devastating – and make no mistake, that is a very real factor with regards to US disdain for Iran, even though it is little reported.
While the people of the United States are facing a crisis in which they may very well end up paying for the wanton greed of Wall Street’s elite, they won’t be the only ones that will be made to bleed for it - average citizens the world over will be there right along side of them simply because of the economic stranglehold that the United States has on the world. And while foreigners might not feel the affects as harshly, the reality remains that what is transpiring right now in the United States is not simply an American problem, but one that will be felt by people the world over.
Here at home, rather than a national debate taking place in which a variety of important issues are addressed, Canadians may very well be treated to an entire hour dedicated to addressing a financial crisis spawned in a foreign country, and all of the political fear mongering that such a crisis makes possible.
We’ll see.
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Yesterday while running errands at lunch I heard some Republican senator on CBC commenting on Obama’s approach to the situation, he was stating rather emphatically that:
“It’s not time to fix blame - it’s time to fix the problem” - the self righteous grand-standing was oozing through the radio.
When I yelled “FUCK OFF!” at the radio, I’m pretty sure the people sitting beside me at the light in downtown Whitehorse thought I was talking to them.
I know it’s a bit off topic, here’s yet another attempt to reopen the investigation. Sorta…….
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/governor-jesse-ventura-working-new/story.aspx?guid={3C0F6926-0206-44CC-BB59-C9FABBED7D8D}&dist=hppr
Go Jesse!!
I just subscribed to the RSS feed on this site a few days ago, and am just starting to get caught up with all the entries, but I just wanted to say how wonderful it was to get the perspective of people from other countries. We here in the US are very cloistered from how our countries actions affect the rest of the world for the most part. So it’s really great to start finding places to reach out and hear the voice of people around the world. Yay internet.
More weasels, man.
So let me get this straight. The financial crisis is a major, unpredictable, problem that will be felt harshly the world over - but let’s not resort to fear mongering. right.
What the entire world is witnessing is our Constitution and the very foundation our country was built upon being tested. By political standards, this bill will get passed at break neck speed, however, to think it would be passed in 5 days is foolish. A majority of people knew that bill was dead even before Pelosi grandstanded on Monday. Bush knows its the Republicans filibustering and he is pushing for them to concede. Is the financial situation grave? Not as much as the media would like us to believe but Bush is pissed and he’s had it with the Dem majority. Logically, this bill is NOT meant to address the loopholes within our current SEC regulations, that is another matter entirely. To think that this bill remedies any of that is again, foolish. Prima fasia, the bill is not devastating to tax payers, its just the tax payers don’t get to reap the benefits of the bill and that is what the Republicans are demanding. They also happen to be pushing to restrict regulation on this money, something the Dems are determined to have. Personally, I don’t think anyone should reap the benefits of this money unless its the Treasury. The thought of ANY money being handed out with regulations smells of socialism and that does not bode well with middle america.
Its unfortuate that the Canadian media have to eclipse important national events with foreign issues. Though I understand why the PM would want to address concerns over the economy, I would consider solutions to existing issues more relevant. Even I consider the attention this ‘bailout’ is getting fruitless. I don’t know why anyone would think the markets wouldn’t get back on track today. Nothing of any significance is going to occur the next few days. If only the media would spend this much time trying to convince me Joe Biden is a good idea. The shock of that may never wear off.
Sounds like “flavor of the day” to me.
Canada’s economy has remained quite good despite what’s going on in the rest of the world. I would think most viewers will not gain any additional value from hearing one full hour of grandstanding about the state of our neighbor’s economy and how this coulda/shoulda/woulda affect Canadians.
At least, nothing that will help them make a more informed decision come October 14. And I can’t see any advantage for Harper to do this when he has been painted with the same brush as Bush on government and military spending.
Dumb. It’s an important issue, but there are a lot of important issues. Perhaps they could compromise and extend the debate to an hour and a half with 30 minutes devoted to the economy, but since that’s not going to happen…
If the US economy really does crash, then it will weaken their standing world wide and their ability to continue their war on terrorism and their national defense so…
Congress should approve the bailout as soon as possible, because if this situation drags on and Bush doesn’t get what he wants he is just going to declare the situation a “national security” issue and put the Department of Homeland Security in charge of the US Economy & issue one of those “executive orders” and make the bailout happen with out any oversight from any level of government or public input.
Another interesting fact that I’m sure everyone knows is that Harper is an economist by education and trade (one of less than a handful of the breed to become PM if my historical knowledge serves me right). I was wondering if he would use that background to his benefit in this time of “global” crisis, and this is certainly his podium to do so. Since his attack ads have been pre-occupied with calling Dion out on his “inability to lead”, I am sure that ol’ Steve cannot wait to flaunt his ability to outstage the opponents in Economic theory….
As you alluded to, the sad thing is that at the end of the day alot of voters are so scared of an economic crisis in another country that they almost certainly will be swayed solely based on that fear.
Matt, what do you think of Leyton’s recently released Campaign agenda?
…also, I wonder how many Canadians will rather flip to the American Vice-prez debate tomorrow night…
[quote comment="67073"]So let me get this straight. The financial crisis is a major, unpredictable, problem that will be felt harshly the world over - but let’s not resort to fear mongering. right.[/quote]
Fear generated for political purposes and reality are two entirely different things.
[quote comment="67087"][quote comment="67073"]So let me get this straight. The financial crisis is a major, unpredictable, problem that will be felt harshly the world over - but let’s not resort to fear mongering. right.[/quote]
Fear generated for political purposes and reality are two entirely different things.[/quote]
^Agreed. In this case it’s not that the fear is irrational, but moreso that Harper is abusing that fear by using it to his own advantage. We can be fairly sure that there is no intention of calming the collective nerves, but I’m sure there will be a promise to do that when the time is right…
[quote comment="67086"]……also, I wonder how many Canadians will rather flip to the American Vice-prez debate tomorrow night…[/quote]
I’ll be catching the French language debate tomorrow and clicking back and forth on Thursday from the English debate to the US vice-presidential debate. If this extract from a Newsweek article in Matt’s Del.icio.us links is any indication of Palin’s debating abilities, we are in for a real circus!
COURIC: Why isn’t it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries; allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?
PALIN: That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health-care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping the—it’s got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health-care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.
You are absoluetly correct Matt. Harper knows exactly what he’s doing. He knows that the polls say he is the leader whom Canadians trust most to deal with the economy. He’s using people’s fear of whats happening in the markets for his own political purposes. I can’t believe Layton gulped the bait, or maybe i can…
What is most ironic is that in today’s Ottawa Citizen, Harper admits that what’s happening to the economy recently is virtually out of his control as PM, and says that the U.S. is to blame for the whole mess. (Sorry i can’t figure out how to link the article).
[quote comment="67086"]
…also, I wonder how many Canadians will rather flip to the American Vice-prez debate tomorrow night…[/quote]
Make that “thursday night”. Damn weekdays…
Fuck that, you’re going to bail out the people who’re the ones screwing the system and making ungodly amounts of money!!
Let AIG sink like the Titanic, the company deserves it. Hopefully this will lead to an economic re-organization that the USA has been desperately been in need of but trying to avoid because it’ll be hard and congress is a 4 year old stomping their feet and holding their breathe.
It’s a free market economy, your insurance company is gone? Do the research and pick up a new one that isn’t more crooked than the smile on Arthur Andersen’s face.
This is really a double, make that a triple whammy. It distracts us from other political issues (keeps many people out of the loop on other topics altogether because, sadly, the focus of media is the focus of the majority). It is good ol’ “shock doctrine”, as Naomi Klein calls it, keeping us in fear and manipulable. Third, it reminds us that we believe capital wealth/ money is not only our top priority but really the only thing we value at all (especially with the whole hour being dedicated to it). It’s really the third item that bothers me most. It goes unquestioned, it’s treated by the media and politicians as being obvious that our identity is one that puts capital wealth above everything else.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not saying that capital wealth has no value, I’m just saying that North Americans have valued other things (maybe even put higher value on them than money) and I hope that after the “crisis” it continues.
[quote comment="67065"]Yesterday while running errands at lunch I heard some Republican senator on CBC commenting on Obama’s approach to the situation, he was stating rather emphatically that:
“It’s not time to fix blame - it’s time to fix the problem” - the self righteous grand-standing was oozing through the radio.
When I yelled “FUCK OFF!” at the radio, I’m pretty sure the people sitting beside me at the light in downtown Whitehorse thought I was talking to them.[/quote]
That certain Senator was none other than Mr.McSame himself:
[url=http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-and-his.html]McCain and His Campaign Blame Obama and Democrats for Bailout Bill’s Death, McCain Says Now Is Not the Time to Affix Blame[/url]
[quote comment="67065"]Yesterday while running errands at lunch I heard some Republican senator on CBC commenting on Obama’s approach to the situation, he was stating rather emphatically that:
“It’s not time to fix blame - it’s time to fix the problem” - the self righteous grand-standing was oozing through the radio.
When I yelled “FUCK OFF!” at the radio, I’m pretty sure the people sitting beside me at the light in downtown Whitehorse thought I was talking to them.[/quote]
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-and-his.html
[quote comment="67065"]Yesterday while running errands at lunch I heard some Republican senator on CBC commenting on Obama’s approach to the situation, he was stating rather emphatically that:
“It’s not time to fix blame - it’s time to fix the problem” - the self righteous grand-standing was oozing through the radio.
When I yelled “FUCK OFF!” at the radio, I’m pretty sure the people sitting beside me at the light in downtown Whitehorse thought I was talking to them.[/quote]
That Senator was none other than Mr.McSame himself:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-and-his.html
[quote comment="67087"]
Fear generated for political purposes and reality are two entirely different things.[/quote]
If this discussion was about the state of the environment and global warming would you still be complaining?
[quote comment="67104"]Fuck that, you’re going to bail out the people who’re the ones screwing the system and making ungodly amounts of money!!
Let AIG sink like the Titanic, the company deserves it. Hopefully this will lead to an economic re-organization that the USA has been desperately been in need of but trying to avoid because it’ll be hard and congress is a 4 year old stomping their feet and holding their breathe.
It’s a free market economy, your insurance company is gone? Do the research and pick up a new one that isn’t more crooked than the smile on Arthur Andersen’s face.[/quote]
So you are prepared to see those companies go down, even if it means the economy goes to the shitter and thousands of average middle class people lose their jobs and life savings in the process?
I’m entertained by the fact that there are a host of people here who think that this isn’t an incredibly big deal for us right now, even though all of our major banks have significant stakes in the affected asset-backed securities, and we in Canada have a housing bubble that hasn’t burst yet. Typical Canadian arrogance, I suppose.
The point is not that this doesn’t deserve its own debate (in my opinion, it deserves ten - the Canadian trading markets need more reform than those of the United States). It’s how that hour will be used - by all parties.
[quote comment="67130"][quote comment="67104"]Fuck that, you’re going to bail out the people who’re the ones screwing the system and making ungodly amounts of money!!
Let AIG sink like the Titanic, the company deserves it. Hopefully this will lead to an economic re-organization that the USA has been desperately been in need of but trying to avoid because it’ll be hard and congress is a 4 year old stomping their feet and holding their breathe.
It’s a free market economy, your insurance company is gone? Do the research and pick up a new one that isn’t more crooked than the smile on Arthur Andersen’s face.[/quote]
So you are prepared to see those companies go down, even if it means the economy goes to the shitter and thousands of average middle class people lose their jobs and life savings in the process?[/quote]
Being one of them, yes. I am fully prepared for the situation to get to the point where the government/it’s people have to do what needs to be done right now but won’t because the problem isn’t big enough yet.
Look at foreign car makers and how their companies are thriving while Chevy and Ford muddle around in millions of dollars in losses every quarter. I can’t find one thing in any of my drawers that’s made in America! Even my army knife is swiss!
Manufacturing jobs need to come back to America, yes it’ll drive up prices yadda yadda yadda, but more people will have jobs that help their fellow citizens and not JUST a board of trustees getting rich off some kid working 14 hour days for pennies in Indonesia.
America is no longer the place to send your tired your hungry your poor. The values that made America so great need to be recaptured, it’s going to start with a congress that’s going to shut the corporate loopholes that have them avoiding taxation and shipping jobs overseas.
It’s going to get even worse before it gets better.
Ugh. As soon as I read “…is asking that the upcoming debate’s full hour be devoted to the economy”, I was nodding my head. Even if there were no crisis in the States right now, it seems like something he would do.
I’d rather that they just put a separate debate on the schedule to deal exclusively with the economy, if Harper thinks it needs more emphasis. Anyway, much as I hate to give Harper any sort of opportunistic advantage, hopefully we’ll get a better idea of the other parties’ economic plans as well. They need to be able to show him up on his pet topic.
gaderael: Thanks for the link. Like I said, I was busy driving and cursing and missed the first part of the broadcast.
I just heard on Deutsche Welle Radio that the Whitehouse is asking for the media’s cooperation by having them stop refering to the proposed fix as a “bailout”. The Whitehouse would prefer the media to use the term “rescue” instead. It has a much nicer ring to it and sounds so much more heroic and patriotic.
Sort of akin to using terms like “Operation Iraqi Freedom” I guess.
Couldn’t help but get a little chuckle out of that one.
Even the EU is jumping on the “rescue” bandwagon now…
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3683214,00.html
Maybe with all of this shit hitting the proverbial fan, this will finally serve as the wakeup call that has been missing for so long now.
Now that this mess has blown up in everyone’s faces, maybe this will finally put a stop to the Enron’s, the Bre-X’s and the Conrad Black’s of the world that have been, for lack of a better term, jailhouse fucking everyone for so long now.
If the possibility of the complete colapse of a nations economy isn’t a big red flag, I don’t know what is.
[quote comment="67138"]So you are prepared to see those companies go down, even if it means the economy goes to the shitter and thousands of average middle class people lose their jobs and life savings in the process?[/quote]
Being one of them, yes. I am fully prepared for the situation to get to the point where the government/it’s people have to do what needs to be done right now but won’t because the problem isn’t big enough yet.
Look at foreign car makers and how their companies are thriving while Chevy and Ford muddle around in millions of dollars in losses every quarter. I can’t find one thing in any of my drawers that’s made in America! Even my army knife is swiss!
Manufacturing jobs need to come back to America, yes it’ll drive up prices yadda yadda yadda, but more people will have jobs that help their fellow citizens and not JUST a board of trustees getting rich off some kid working 14 hour days for pennies in Indonesia.
America is no longer the place to send your tired your hungry your poor. The values that made America so great need to be recaptured, it’s going to start with a congress that’s going to shut the corporate loopholes that have them avoiding taxation and shipping jobs overseas.
It’s going to get even worse before it gets better.[/quote]
So long as the bailout doesn’t go through, that will sure as hell be the case. The bank/car company analogy is wholly inaccurate; the idea that bank failures are a healthy purging of mismanaged companies ignores how the banking system and economy works. The better managed companies won’t simply “step in” to take the place of those that have failed, as in manufacturing, but instead, billions of dollars of assets will be defaulted on. The net result of the “bailout” is predicted, even by economists who don’t really like the plan, to have a close-to-nil overall impact on the taxpayer. If it’s a spite issue - in that you’d rather see liquidity dry up than banks be given a free ride through Fed buyout of assets - then that’s sad. If it’s an issue of using taxpayer money to free up capital (which is where the real argument of the bailout comes into play), then it’s wrong, as again, the money won’t actually be lost. If it’s about having a free market rather than this so-called economic socialism, keep in mind that you have nothing even approaching a free market. Again, Canada is worse in that respect.
Also, it’s a terrible thing to hope your country gets into the manufacturing sector. There are a host of other countries who can do it better, for cheaper - meaning American products will simply be passed over by the consumer. You can’t force the consumer to have principles, or else everyone would be buying domestic products (or at least foreign products from countries with good labor laws) anyway. As well, unless you want to have to supress your own dollar to try to stay competitive in the export market (as we basically have to do in Canada), you’re going to have a hard time competing overseas. The economy needs to be engaged in stable high-value sectors that are unique to first-world countries; they simply need to be legitimate ones, rather than cash grabs created by the upper management of institutions whose multimillion-dollar bonuses are based off quarterly earnings, rather than long term stability.
Ahhh, fucking quotes. Some of that is yours, some is mine. I hate this frickin’ system.
[quote comment="67130"]So you are prepared to see those companies go down, even if it means the economy goes to the shitter and thousands of average middle class people lose their jobs and life savings in the process?[/quote]
If the US really has $700 billion dollars to spend, they should use that money to create jobs, improve infrastructure, increase financial and technological efficiency, etc. If access to credit is a problem, the state should convert the already-nationalized banks into a transparent and profitable public lending institution. Cash giveaways to financiers will only delay a recession–there need to be structural changes to the economy.
The US does not have $700 billion to spend.
It’s only a matter of time before things equalize a bit more and other stronger economies take over, leaving the US dollar and letting the whole thing come crashing down.
Americans drive much of the world’s consumption, but Americans now have record debt loads and very little real money to play with. I think, inevitably, American consumption will have to decline at some point.
Then again, what do I know?