On Tonight’s First US Presidential Debate
September 26, 2008, Matthew Good If change is what this election is all about then tonight’s debate proved one thing – the sort of change that Americans can expect is equitable to removing dirty socks and putting on a new pair only slightly less so. There was absolutely no electricity or urgency emanating from Barack Obama, who played into McCain’s set pieces from the onset. It was the old Republican warhorse blowing his own horn and the champion of change, promoted as such primarily because of who currently inhabits the White House, who seemed more an obliging centrist than anything else.
This evening’s debate proved one thing - that the American political landscape is no less a quagmire than those foreign wars that the nation is currently embroiled in. The willingness to truly take chances, to risk, and through impassioned resolve ignite the imaginations of the people has fled, replaced by placation’s ever promising embrace of success. No, democracy is not alive and well in America, only the corporate branding of two political parties and their struggle to dominate the market. In fact, it’s a trait that is almost universal in the Western world.
Leading a nation requires, above all else, true vision, and neither man that stood on that stage this evening possesses it. True, they maintain beliefs, but in the end what occurred tonight was a tangle of rhetoric devoid of vision. Words were spoken, jabs were traded, experience and temperament were questioned, but a visionary leader was not in that building.
I took notes throughout the debate, but looking at them now it seems pointless to comment. Victory in Iraq? Defeat has already occurred, but like a car crash victim drowning in shock it simply hasn’t sunk in yet, just as it hadn’t in 1971. Venezuela claimed a rogue state, the linguistic misinterpretation of ‘wipe Israel off the face of the map’ presented as fact, the Russians chastised for their actions while the Georgian government is showered with praise, and the unbelievable assertion that al-Qaeda will claim a foothold in Iraq if the US fails in its mission employed as the fear card. The Shia would eat them alive were the US to leave the country, but let’s not let reality get in the way.
No, tonight was a lesson in the exhaustive inanity of American politics. The Muses, it seems, have cast their euphoric haze and wait with anticipation to see what dead loss is born.
In Addition
…errata/content added after publication
The title of this entry was changed at 11:54 PM, PST. It seems it offended a few readers.
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I’m still watching the debate on the DVR but one thing you said caught my eye and that was your comment about Obama being an “obliging centrist.” Unfortunately, that’s the only way to get elected down here. Bush is a prime example of going to the center to draw the votes of the independents and then sliding back towards the right or left once they’re in power.
I’m pretty sure that the people that read this blog aren’t really the target audience for the debate but rather the blue collar folks who put just as much emphasis on how they look compared to what they say. But in the end this was supposed to be McCain’s turf and he came off more as a pissed off old man than a grizzled foreign policy expert.
Just my $.02…
This article was very refreshing. I completely agree with you on all fronts to Matt. I got this video you gotta check out on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds very intresting indeed. Also here’s an article on Ron Paul and his outlook on this bail out. http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-congress-has-opted-for-10-year-plus-depression.html wow.
I was steaming out the ears while McCain stated Georgia was invaded and bullied by Russia.
Just as much so when i heard the Milguard inquiry pointed the finger at Joyce for “Hindering there efforts”.
Bastards!!
Aww it wasn’t all that bad.
Just to argue a little. It was pragmatic. You want grandstanding, over-arching waves of passionate idealism. Forget it. These are tough times and we got pragmatic sober assessments.
Idealism cuts many ways – as does cynicism. People seem to forget that Bush was actually an idealistic (or ideologue if you like) president. Yes, he was an idealist to some people. And just try to imagine the Bush revolution had actually born ripe fruit: a return to traditions and moral values, an ownership society, a safer world through a stronger American foreign policy. It didn’t come to bear – but that might have been a better world.
Obama didn’t knock it out of the park – but he played it well. It was the first debate – what did you expect.
Further – as for all the mistruths, minor details, omissions: (victory in Iraq, Georgia, “wipe Israel off the map”). Those can certainly all be argued by the experts until we are all blue in the face. The final line hasn’t been spelled out on any of those to my satisfaction – but then I am the first to admit that I am full of limitations.
I did not learn one single thing at all during this so called debate. Nothing. As a matter of fact, half way through, I began studying an owners manual for a new Digi-Tech RP500. I’m building a new studio, seperated from the house. After you get “Toronto” out, you’re going to come down here and change your name to Blind Lemon Goodwin and record a Blues Album. And no talk of politics will be tolerated. As we speak, i’m writing a Help Wanted ad for a European Studio assistant to help with the transition.
And in other news, Ralph Nader is once again barred from the debates even though he’s polling 5% nationally. It’s funny how hard both parties work to stifle Nader and other third-party candidates who are on enough state ballots to theoretically win the electoral vote. The Commission on Presidential Debates - the body that determines who is allowed to participate in the debates and the questions that will be asked - was created by both major parties in 1987 and is primarily sponsored by Anheuser Busch. Many of the board members of the CPD in one way or another have ties to multinational corporations, ranging from the pharmaceutical industry to the insurance industry.
Here’s a wonderful article further articulating my point: http://opendebates.org/theissue/corpsponsor.html
It’s no wonder that the United States has been in steady decline for such time. By presenting the mass audience only with Plan A or Plan B (both of which are heinously flawed), the people are none the wiser to other ideas floating around out there that can solve many of the issues facing America today. Then again, why would we want to do that when armed conflict is so lucrative?
Being a Canadian, living in the U.S. , I’m neutral in my feeling towards both candidates. I just hope my American friends make the right choice for their sake and the rest of the world. Here are some of my first thoughts after the debate. In my opinion there were no clear winners. McCain tried to distance himself from the Bush administration and Obama came across not as liberal in his policies as republicans would have wanted you to believe. McCain seemed a little bit edgy at times, but showed his experience in federal government process. Obama seemed a bit more at ease and smooth in his delivery of his thoughts, but maybe lacked knowledge in the negotiation process in world affairs (it sounds like McCains got Kissinger (Nixon era?) in his corner. I didn’t know he was still alive?). It will be interesting to see what the feedback is at work come Monday, as I get the feeling most are republican voters.
Oh boy I can’t wait til them Canadian federal election debates on TV….that will be one to stay up for Eh! Ha!
I really really had in mind to stay up and watch the debate which was live broadcasted via german first television (ARD). Unfortunately the coverage started at a somewhat “unchristian” time (around 3 a.m. in the morning). I only made it up to 1:30 something and then peacefully nodded off…
But well, the above rating of Matthew’s is pretty close to what I was expecting of the debate. I was pretty sure Obama would trot out the same soulless phrases he did in Berlin a few months ago.
The word that describes the current regime in the USA best, would be ‘illiberal democracy’. The Bush regime has done its best in the past to turn talks of the US being a democracy into a bad joke and I can’t see that this is going to change significantly under Obama, let alone McCain.
[quote comment="66616"]I’m still watching the debate on the DVR but one thing you said caught my eye and that was your comment about Obama being an “obliging centrist.” Unfortunately, that’s the only way to get elected down here. [/quote]
I think it’s the same in most western industrialized nations. The phenomenon of western societies increasingly polarizing in a small elite of people that are considered as rich and a large amount of such that are below average or even poor, with a “middle-class” that is visibly disappearing, creates impulses for established parties to move to the political middle to maintain their status as a “people’s party” and keep the voters at it.
That’s a process that inevitably creates room for small right- or left-wing groups of radical nature. I see that in my home country. Four years ago we had a neo-nazi party entering the state parliament of the federal state of Saxony with 9% of the saxonian voters pushing them forward. It’s a dangerous game we play on the so called top of the world…
I just couldn’t take my eyes off that gooey white blob on Obama’s lips that seemed to take life and dance around when he spoke.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Either way, the ‘changing dirty socks to ones slightly less so’ analogy pretty much sums it up.
How can you ‘debate’ someone who’s only written word on record is “PRESENT”. Obama hasn’t walked a mile in any shoe worn by other Senators especially John McCain. Obama hasn’t led men down the street to a deli, how could he make definitive statements on much of anything. I hear his ideas as much as I hear McCains. The issue is that both men possess personal agendas and I am less fearful of McCain’s agenda than Obama’s. The last thing the US needs is another FDR conjuring up a social program. That led to the protracted recession of the ’30s. We need a leader who is going to vigorously defend and uphold our US Constitution. I have yet to see ONE example of that from Obama. If someone can point that out to me, I would LOVE to see it. America needs a government thats going to govern. That’s going to protect my interests in a free market, allow me the liberty to live free. I don’t want the govt to tell me ANYTHING!! ESPECIALLY that I HAVE to give MY money to my neighbor because they are not employed, they can’t help themselves, they are losing their house because they can’t read a Mortgage document THEY signed. I imagine my dreams of personal responsibility among my fellow americans is far fetched and I am ashamed of that. We ALL bear the burden of responsibility of what is happening in our communities, in our financial market, in our own homes. NONE of it has to do with our government’s lack of leadership or control. Therefore, it is up to us NOT the govt to change our ways.
[quote comment="66637"]I don’t want the govt to tell me ANYTHING!! [/quote]
I believe that’s called “anarchy.” Grab a time machine and head back to Somalia in the early 90s. It’ll be fun.
There was several moments when Obama could have steamrolled Gramps, but didn’t. What a waste.
No clear “win” for anyone, and I am still let with the impression that McCain is a doddering, lying, miserable example of a human being and Obama is a lot of noise but little substance.
[quote comment="66635"]I just couldn’t take my eyes off that gooey white blob on Obama’s lips that seemed to take life and dance around when he spoke.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Either way, the ‘changing dirty socks to ones slightly less so’ analogy pretty much sums it up.[/quote]
I did not see that. You must have HD TV?
Or maybe it’s time to ‘tune up’ my eye glasses..lol
Probably the latter apllies!
[quote comment="66640"][quote comment="66635"]I just couldn’t take my eyes off that gooey white blob on Obama’s lips that seemed to take life and dance around when he spoke.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Either way, the ‘changing dirty socks to ones slightly less so’ analogy pretty much sums it up.[/quote]
I did not see that. You must have HD TV?
Or maybe it’s time to ‘tune up’ my eye glasses..lol
Probably the latter apllies![/quote]
46″ plasma HDTV. It was hard not to notice that goo when it was the size of my fist.
As Matt pointed out, there’s good reason to be cynical about the outcome of this election. That’s what I was listening for last night – the kind of sweeping changes Obama’s campaign has promised. What he delivered was milquetoast.
Except for a bit of a last-minute rally ona strategic global vision to rebuild the US’ image, he downplayed his preference for diplomacy over militarism which was what compelled me to root for him in the first place.
Maybe I’m too old and cynical, but what difference does it make anyways? Once in the White House, they are all puppets for the powers that be.
[quote comment="66637"] America needs a government thats going to govern. That’s going to protect my interests in a free market, allow me the liberty to live free. I don’t want the govt to tell me ANYTHING!! ESPECIALLY that I HAVE to give MY money to my neighbor because they are not employed, they can’t help themselves, they are losing their house because they can’t read a Mortgage document THEY signed. .[/quote]
What exactly ARE your interests in ” a free market ” if you dont want the government to do anything, how should they go about “protecting your interests” you cant possibly mean a little bit of regulation now can you? Your government has decided to TAKE your money now,(or borrow it on your behalf) and not only bail out the financial institutions, but provide some relief for those thousands of people who cant read, because at the heart of this massive financial crisis, lies the subprime mortgage. If those folks were smart enough, they would have negotiated a higher interest rate for themselves for the good of the country. Your comments about FDR are truly staggering, Your support of MCCain in a financial regrard is obviously unresearched, and the hypocrisy with which you write is confounding.
[quote comment="66637"]We ALL bear the burden of responsibility of what is happening in our communities, in our financial market, in our own homes.[/quote]
Those are the words of a socialist my friend, only instead of just THINKING it you need to ACT. Maybe thats where you have a tough time. You do Remember the whole “divided we fall” thingy?
Obama is running for President with an elephant on his back, it’s not suprising the care he’s taking on where he plants his feet. Any talk of radical change on his part will be used by the Republicans and their pet talking heads at networks like Fox to paint him as a commie or worse. I know it’s nuts, but it shows how far US politics has degraded.
Media and electorial reform is one area where America is in true need of change, probably here in Canada also.
Even if Obama doesn’t live up to billing if elected, he will have shown that the US doesn’t belong to the ultra-conservatives who are little more than neo-imperialists. That alone is worth the change.
Good point Doug.
[quote comment="66647"]Obama is running for President with an elephant on his back, it’s not suprising the care he’s taking on where he plants his feet. Any talk of radical change on his part will be used by the Republicans and their pet talking heads at networks like Fox to paint him as a commie or worse. I know it’s nuts, but it shows how far US politics has degraded.
Media and electorial reform is one area where America is in true need of change, probably here in Canada also.
Even if Obama doesn’t live up to billing if elected, he will have shown that the US doesn’t belong to the ultra-conservatives who are little more than neo-imperialists. That alone is worth the change.[/quote]
One thing Doug that I have notice down here in the south is how aggression some republicans are towards democrats in their views. And I am talking about what I would consider a ‘middle of the road’ republican. I would say the reverse is not necessarily true as far as democrats being very vocal about criticizing republican policies. I have found that democrats at least in this area are very ‘low key’ if not down right ‘in the closet’ democrats. If the democrats have an electoral vote that is a majority force in this area it would really be a surprise come election time.
It’s hard to believe that at one time the democrats had a ‘strong hold’ for years in this area because of the large number of textile mills and the ‘blue collar’ work force, which has pretty much slowly shut down in the last 10 years and gone to foreign countries. It is amazing how the political landscape has changed here over the years.
I was so upset by the debates last night. Pretty much about an hour in I started crying and said fuck you to the TV and turned it off. The future is bleak…
The debate was rather…blah…in my mind. I think it was a virtual tie though McCain might have come out with an edge. His name dropping with the foreign leaders I found rather funny; kinda made Obama look like an out of place pipsqueak, which he is compared to McCain.
OBAMA: “…. We have weakened our capacity to project power around the world because we have viewed everything through this single lens, …”
The lens - Iraq
It is a fact. McCain will continue to focus American foreign policy toward solving Iraq and terror. This part of the Bush policy will not change.
For all McCain supporters and leaners, Iraq can no longer be our nation’s focus. America is poor. America has been weaken by Bush/Cheney. Let the Maverick go back to the Senate and bring accountability to America politics. I’m sure he will have support from the Administration.
It comes down to 2 paths. One takes the country deeper into the NeoCon vision of the world because of his experience, the other, sees the World through a fresh lens. Obama’s vision may not yet be True enough for Matt, but their are things Obama can not say and do. This is America, unfortunately. Because of fate, so much of America has become so conservative that change truly scares them unless it’s change that puts government on trial with McCain as the judge.
The Republicans failed. They had it all. The even found a couple of Wars to make the Capitalists very happy. Americans can not allow the Republican NeoCons another try. I thought Obama might introduce this topic. I know Obama does not believe in Preemptive Wars. Unfortunately McCain continues to believe.
One Prediction: Obama, the star, is about to appear again. David Plouffe, his campaign manger, has been playing this election like a highly energetic symphony with some interesting McCain solos. But,the Climax is about to play. David knows you can not be leading all the time, but he sure knows October is the month to shine.
I unfortunately only caught the last half hour of the debate, so I can’t say too much about the content of their arguments. I did notice a large difference in their body language during that time though. Obama seemed confident and willing to look at his opponent, whereas McCain seemed less comfortable on stage and rarely looked at Obama. I know I’m generalizing based on only what I’ve seen, but I think that a lot of people will have seen Obama as the victor merely because he seemed more at ease and his arguments sounded more sincere. Obviously it’s a highly subjective factor though, and people (myself included) are likely to see whatever it is that they expected to see going into it.
Who was the winner? Whoever we wanted it to be.
[quote comment="66656"]
One thing Doug that I have notice down here in the south is how aggression some republicans are towards democrats in their views. And I am talking about what I would consider a ‘middle of the road’ republican. I would say the reverse is not necessarily true as far as democrats being very vocal about criticizing republican policies. I have found that democrats at least in this area are very ‘low key’ if not down right ‘in the closet’ democrats. If the democrats have an electoral vote that is a majority force in this area it would really be a surprise come election time.
It’s hard to believe that at one time the democrats had a ‘strong hold’ for years in this area because of the large number of textile mills and the ‘blue collar’ work force, which has pretty much slowly shut down in the last 10 years and gone to foreign countries. It is amazing how the political landscape has changed here over the years.[/quote]
It’s not surprising when you consider how much airtime there is devoted to demonizing the Democrats and their supporters. I think Matt and others have done some good articles about that here, including about the deranged man that walked into a church in the south and opened fire with a shotgun killing several.
When people like O’Reilly and Savage and others are given a prominent platform to dispense their hate, then intolerance is sure to follow, the same thing has occured in place like Nazi Germany and Rwanda in the past. Most of the political pundits in the US come from well funded right wing think tanks and the media itself is owned by large conglomerates who are interested in their needs, not the general good. The Liberal media is a myth.
There’s a lot more at stake in the US than just the economy or the war with this election, if things continue the way they are, Americans won’t have a democratic choice for much longer in my opinion.
If this was a prize fight, the judges would have had to make the decision. Nobody got knocked down. Hardly a flurry or a solid right (or left) landed anywhere. The crowd would have booed and thought about leaving early to get a jump on the traffic.
I’d like to echo Communist Dan above; since the two parties choose the issues, moderator, time allocation, venue, audience, etc. of this debate, it’s really little more than a joint press conference. There needs to be at least one third-party candidate in the room who can ask the questions the major parties don’t want to talk about.
“Why do you both say the military needs more money when Americans spend $800 billion a year for it?”
“Why do we base our economy on the ludicrous idea that goods and services can and must keep growing forever?”
“Why do you oppose single-payer health care for Americans while members of Congress already receive it?”
Man, that would be sweet…
Read up:
http://opendebates.org/theissue
[quote comment="66666"]I was so upset by the debates last night. Pretty much about an hour in I started crying and said fuck you to the TV and turned it off. The future is bleak…[/quote]
Not that I’m always the most optimistic person in the world.
But I believe things will be Ok in the end Jessica.
I have a lot of faith in your average person in this world.
They are for the most part all good people
And that in the end will prevail above all the negative things that are going on right now.
As long as people are well informed to make their own decisions, over time they will make the right one.
[quote comment="66726"][quote comment="66666"]I was so upset by the debates last night. Pretty much about an hour in I started crying and said fuck you to the TV and turned it off. The future is bleak…[/quote]
Not that I’m always the most optimistic person in the world.
But I believe things will be Ok in the end Jessica.
I have a lot of faith in your average person in this world.
They are for the most part all good people
And that in the end will prevail above all the negative things that are going on right now.
As long as people are well informed to make their own decisions, over time they will make the right one.[/quote]
I genuinely agree that the average person is good too. Thats the problem though; the average person is not represented in politics, and even if a politician has good intentions, it eventually is corrupted out of him/her. I was so repulsed by their discussion on the Middle East. But Im sure that is due to me being the child of an Arab American, most Americans probably see things similarly to them…
To: Revisted
It’s easy to attack one sentence when taken out of context. However, if you read my entries, I vigorously believe in my Constitution and its mission. I can send you excepts of it where it clearly states that my government has NO right to enforce its belief/ on me.
To: themonsheshe
The US is at a financial turning point and it would be GREAT if Alexander Hamilton could come walking down Trinity Place to Wall Street. He would be APPALLED by the actions of our government right now. The mistake the US made was to rescue Merrill Lynch. BAD!!! I do not want any type of government regulation or interference in my free market. That would be a violation of the constitution. I never mentioned anything about McCain’s financial ideas or regard so I am unclear about that statement. Further, if you knew anything about this proposed bailout, the democrats are hardlining that 20% of the profits from the monies the treasury gets back gets funneled to A.C.O.R.N. what the HELL does THAT have to do with the ‘fat cats of wall street’?? And why should ANYONE except the US Treasury benefit from this bailout? So I will stick by my FDR statement because I resent the fact he kept this nation in a recession far longer than the rest of the world at the time. Lastly, I am fortunate enough to work in an industry that I was privy to the subprime lending. Believe me, I acted accordingly. The NYS banking department loathes my correspondence of double dealing Mortgage brokers. The 10th Judicial district has files of correspondence on attorneys who got kickbacks. The NYS Insurance Fund and Department know the names of various title companies, appraisers and lenders because I wrote them. Believe me, I saw the documents with 110% financing for people who CLEARLY could not afford it. In my region it happened to be the latin population. I couldn’t stop the shady practices, but I could sleep at night. It was much bigger than my small company. Do not call me a Socialist when I actively seek separation of government and its people. I am a responsible citizen but perhaps I was not clear enough in my prior statement.
I was merely commenting on the Debate and asking everyone on this message board why does the US need a revolution of social programs now as Obama has stumped. The current bailout has nothing to do with that obviously.
The US needs a revolution in how government preforms its responsibilities. Obama’s programs are more a change how these programs are implemented then a revolution of social programs. The people in America are fed up with the inefficiencies and direction of government. The theory that you give the private sector tax breaks to spur investment to create jobs. This theory is unworkable in the environment of greed that dominates the business sector as well as government.
Obama understands that making Health Care more efficient with more focus on prevention will save the Nation billions down the road. Think of this time as the Great Restructuring of American Government along with the Reformation of Ethics in business and government
I believe in individual responsibility but look where that has taken America. The most important and innovated part of business in America, financial services, has proven how GREED can destroy the fabric of America Society. Uberadtx, your incite is greatly appreciated. I hope for the day America implements the utopian ideals of Roddenbery’s Universe where government works to give ever individual a chance to find their inner passion that gives enthusiasm and purpose to every person’s life.
The model of Capitalism only works when the private sector lives up to its responsibilities. They failed. We need to reign in the private sector through over sight and control until the ethics of the business world has a chance to change. McCain hopes that by stimulating the private business world, it will lead America out of its present problems. I suggest, as a recession grows, businesses will only be looking out for their own survival, still focusing on their stock instead of the good of society. Therefore, a re-structuring of American government is necessary. I wish Alexander Hamilton principles could be the way of US business principles. I think we will never get back to the ideals of Hamilton as a world government begins to form.
[...] sharp and so reading it is time well spent. Matt has a particularly underwhelmed and frustrated take on the debate, [...]
I don’t see a world of difference between Obama’s ‘obliging centrist’ and Stephen Harper’s here in Canada. If he went out and said he was going to commit troops to Afghanistan for even longer, abolish public funding of the CBC, and reopen the health care debate, he would be tarred and feathered just the same. ‘Liberal’ is an insult in America, and ‘Conservative’ is an insult in Canada. Both are stupid insults.
I was underwhelmed by the debate. It didn’t tell me very much i already didn’t know about the candidates. There were a few decent moments of back-and-worth such as the arguing on the “meeting foreign leaders without pre-conditions” topic.
I pretty much agree with Matt. As the election campaign has progressed, Obama becomes more and more “safe” with his rhetoric (minus the DNC speech). He wasn’t on the stage friday evening promoting fundamental changes in U.S. policy, he was offering alternatives to McCain that were slightly less sharp of the blade, but the same sword swinging above their heads.
The question that was asked by the moderator “what are the lessons of Iraq War” provided crap responses. Typical B.S. Why doesn’t one of them stand up there, look into the camera, and tell the people that their government lied to Congress, the American people, and the international community in order to start a bogus war that resulted in the death of somebody else besides a U.S. solider. Instead we get answers about “bad military strategy” and “we needed our troops in Afghanistan, not Iraq”.
Two giant pussies on parade in America. I hate politicians. Obama’s playing it safe i guess, my only hope is he turns into the person we hope he is after he is elected (if). And McCain, well at least there exists one Republican who is against torture, but it only took him several years in a Hanoi prison cell and a pair of half-useless shoulders to convince him of that.
Also agree with everyone about the lack of any other candidates in the debate. At least Elizabeth May got her shot.