Political White Noise
John McCain’s campaign can attack Barack Obama’s lack of foreign policy experience until they’re blue in the face and Sarah Palin’s lack of experience can be equally attacked until the sun implodes. The truth is that when President George W. Bush took office in January of 2001 he had absolutely no foreign policy experience – unless you count dealing with foreign Major League Baseball players. True, his running mate was Secretary of Defense under George Bush Senior, but that doesn’t alter the fact that Bush himself had none. When the shit hit the fan on the morning of September 11th the nation would be introduced to a cabal of foreign policy experts that had assumed positions within the Bush Administration, among them noted lunatics such as Paul Wolfowitz, whose Defense Planning Guidance penned during Cheney’s reign at the DOD would be transformed into one of the most reckless foreign policy doctrines in US history.
The truth is that President Bush had nothing to do with the foreign policy doctrine that now bears his name. It was promoted by a group of hardliners prior to his election, implemented after 9/11, and would, at an unprecedented rate, irrevocably harm America’s reputation abroad.
So what do I care that some conservative moose hunting fanatic from Alaska has no foreign policy experience? In truth, there hasn’t been a President since Dwight Eisenhower that has had substantial first hand foreign policy experience – and even he, in his finest hour, admonished the very real threat of US militarism as it pertained to the nation’s soul. If we’re to cut the shit, an actor turned politician is widely hailed in the United States for ending the Cold War. That alone should say something.
Yesterday during Palin’s speech she claimed that John McCain has first hand experience with regards to how “tough fights are won”. Sorry to disappoint, Sarah, but Mr. McCain was a prisoner of war in a conflict that was lost by the United States. John McCain did indeed survive, and his personal fortitude under the circumstances should be applauded. I’ll not deny his heroics with regards to the fire on the USS Forrestal in 1967, nor the fact that following that incident, and the injuries he sustained, he volunteered to serve on the USS Oriskany and continue to fly missions. I will also no deny that after being shot down he was attacked by locals, stabbed, beaten, and then initially refused medical treatment by the North Vietnamese, who beat and interrogated him for information until they learned that his father was an Admiral. In fact, McCain’s father and Grandfather were Admirals.
John McCain’s ordeal was indeed severe, and questioning his service isn’t the issue. What is the issue is the context in which it is used. Despite the fact that his internment by the North Vietnamese elevated him to the level of an American hero, the reality is that there is a rather large stone monument in Washington on which the names of those who did not return from that war stands as testament to its utter folly. Marines lost at Khe Sanh, boys too young to even legally drink a beer in their home towns disappeared in jungles never to be seen again. The dregs of US society largely fought that war, and the recognition of their sacrifice actually had to be fought for after the fact.
John McCain is a war hero. A hero of a war that was lost, that should have never been fought, and that took the lives of over 58,000 Americans and injured a further 304,000. In its aftermath, more Vietnam veterans would commit suicide than were lost in the war itself. In a study conducted in the late 1980’s it was revealed that, at the time, 29,000 Vietnam vets were serving time in federal prisons, a further 37,000 had been paroled, 250,000 were under probationary supervision, and 87,000 were awaiting trial for crimes committed. Those statistics come from information provided by the Veterans Outreach Center regarding the affects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
In the end, the names of the boys on the wall in Washington perhaps represent the lucky ones.
The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are not comparable to the world’s most devastating wars. There has been no Bastogne in Iraq, no Iwo Jima in Afghanistan. The conditions faced by those serving in those conflicts are unique to them, just as Vietnam was, and to not take that into consideration is folly.
That folly has dug graves over the last seven years while the oligarchs in Washington, their faces painted with concern and resolve for affect, have attempted time and again to ennoble wars that cannot be. They have overblown the significance of a ‘global enemy’ to the point that the war in Iraq was transformed into one against al-Qaeda, even though it didn’t exist in Iraq prior to the invasion of the country and only represented a mere 5% of the insurgency at its height. Meanwhile, kids from small towns in Texas and Indiana are returning home and suffering the affects of PTSD, some of them committing criminal acts, the notions of which they would have never even entertained prior to their deployments. For many of them, given the state of the US Armed Forces, they are made to go back.
Sarah Palin is the Republican Vice Presidential candidate. Her son is due to deploy to Iraq on September 11th (something that was, of course, mentioned in her recent speech).
The rich and influential very rarely pay for ground. They commonly just walk over it after it has been soaked with blood and, like Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now, breathe in the fumes of the price paid for it. There are exceptions, of course, such as John McCain’s son.
In the end, the lot of them can go straight to hell as far as I’m concerned. Because this election isn’t about politics, pandering to patriotic fervor or special interest groups – it’s about wars and the futures of those that have been made to fight them under false pretenses. Politicians lie, no matter which side of the political fence they happen to be on. What they do not do is die as a result of their policies, and it’s about time that people woke up to that fact.
In Addition
…errata/content added after publication
This entry was updated for content at 4:51 PM, PST.
Want to bookmark or share this entry?
This entry was posted on Thursday, September 4th, 2008 at 2:07 pm. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
It’s almost like we’ve forgotten the basics of life. Like living. We’re so focused on the details that we’ve lost track of what’s really truly important. We’re focused on policy and war and what not that we don’t remember that it’s all about life and living. We’re sending our people out to ‘defend’ us and our way of life that we’ve totally missing the fact that we’re losing more than we’re saving. We’ve missed the point.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Can you provide a URL for the information you posted on the number of Vietnam veterans that had problems with the law. Specifically, the Veterans Outreach Center that you refer to as the source of the info. There are dozens of Veterans Outreach Center throughout the U.S, so its kind of hard to check the info with an actual URL. Personally, I find the numbers highly suspicious.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
It’s interesting how the ‘08 RNC praises a Vietnam veteran when four years ago, the ‘04 RNC swiftboated one.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I’m sure that Mrs. Palin’s son will not be put in harm’s way. If she believes her own bullshit they will win the election and the US is close to winning the war in Iraq anyway (unless of course Obama wins and he is allowed to “forfeit” this sure victory). So even if he does go - he’ll be home by Christmas.
(if your sarcasm alarms are not going off right now - they should be).
September 4th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I finally watched Palin’s speech a couple minutes ago…THAT is what people are getting excited about? I was hoping for something that would make me less fearful of her and McCain winning, but they somehow managed to push me from “uncomfortable” with the idea, to all out terrified.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Sure.
September 4th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I’m watching/listening to the speech right now.
But I can already tell she hasn’t got it to be VP. There is no leadership in her voice.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Matt:
“The dregs of US society largely fought that war,”
Well, you just blew a V.F.W. tour next year. :)
McCain’s son just got back from a tour of Iraq as a grunt Marine with no special favors.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
[quote comment="63875"]It’s interesting how the ‘08 RNC praises a Vietnam veteran when four years ago, the ‘04 RNC swiftboated one.[/quote]
EXCELLENT point.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
maybe they’re crazy, but those dregs from http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com are saying:
“The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain’s 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLOBORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American “hero” sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner’s “hotbox” for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given “special” treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father’s and grandfather’s 4 star admiral positions with the Navy. No one has ever witnessed McCain’s supposed “torture” at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain’s camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain’s disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs.”
The things is, Obama is only the lesser of two evils, and has virtually slapped his supporters in the face for multiple reasons.
1) Giving the false impression he is anti-war, and then reversing that stance.
2) Voting in favour of the FISA laws that grant telecom immunity after they broke the law wiretapping americans for Mr. Bush’s administration.
3) Selecting Joe Biden who pushed just as hard as John McCain for the Iraq War, as VP
4) Having Zbigniew Brzezinski as one of his key advisors… Have you read his book, “The Grand Chessboard”
5) Wife Michelle belongs to the Chicago “Council on Foreign Relations” (big time imperialistic foreign policy think tank)
The 2 party system is dead. Only a Dennis Kucinich or a Ron Paul could have had a chance to have saved the last shreds of it. And now the Canadian government wants to snap an election to peg their result to whatever happens in Americanada.
Brzezinski wrote out the agenda quite a while ago in his book. For the Elites in charge of the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower spoke of so long ago, having either McCain or Obama in office means THEY win, because the wars will continue, weapons sold, reconstruction contracts awarded, mercenaries paid and allowed to operate with impunity, and if worse comes to worse, war with Iran, re-instatement of Draft, and full on martial law police state.
For those who think it cannot happen, i implore you to check out this video of PRE-EMPTIVE raids on JOURNALISTS before the RNC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz54NVfVVOw
It will chill you that they can operate in such an organized fascist manner. If you really want to get a better understanding of how and why these Corporate Elites are closing the noose on our freedoms as they centrally consolidate power, then please check out my film, “Hijacking Humanity”, for FREE on Google Video, or at http://hijackinghumanity.com
Left Vs. Right is just two arms of the same body. I’m not anti-government, i’m pro-good government… i just wish we had it.
i humbly appreciate you taking the time to watch the film with an open mind.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
McCain’s son did indeed, and he has another son due to graduate from the Naval academy. He comes from a very prominent military family, no argument there. But the truth remains that the dregs of US society did largely fight the Vietnam war, and are also fighting the war in Iraq. Their numbers are far greater than those of prominent politicians.
As for Palin’s son, I will strike that part of the entry because it is speculation on my part.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
What McCain did represents the ability to take a lot of terrible things from people. But how much leading did he do during that war? So I do agree with how his military eperience has been used in the campaign.
Look at Obama’s time before he was in office. He could have had an easy career. He worked to a point in college where very few can say they got to in that respect, and turned down jobs that could have made him rich. Instead he went and helped people. He gave them something that nobody with his credentials would have(in my opinion). If that does not show a unique ability to be a leader, then what does?
Ironically, he is is arguing against people he could have been working with being involved in government to the extent they are.
Also, McCain is somebody who also said he wished that he was at the bottom of the class, so he could have met the president at the time. For me, there is no good motive or reason to want to be the one with the worst grades. Especially when it is related to the military. Which I do believe has to do with this foreign policy thing, doesn’t it?
September 4th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
[quote comment="63889"]maybe they’re crazy, but those dregs from http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com are saying:
“The impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain’s 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the truth that one could possible go. McCain, from the first moments of his capture, had behaved as a COLLOBORATOR and propaganda tool for his North Vietnamese captors. McCain had engaged in no less than 30, and likely as many as 38 anti-American propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi during the period of his captivity. Far from the image of a dedicated American “hero” sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prisoner’s “hotbox” for 5 1/2 years, McCain was often given “special” treatment by his captors, who were fully aware of his father’s and grandfather’s 4 star admiral positions with the Navy. No one has ever witnessed McCain’s supposed “torture” at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain’s camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese. McCain’s disgraceful and wholly reprehensible conduct during the 1991-93 Senate Committee on POW/MIAs leaves no doubt that McCain is a traitor to this country and its veterans and especially to the families of POWs and MIAs.”[/quote]
I think you are a little out to lunch on that one. The guy cannot raise his arms past a certain height because of his injuries sustained while captive. His jaw was also broken numerous times which is why he has somewhat of a goofy smile. He also was offered a chance to be released because of his father’s standing in the army; but refused because there had been others who had been there longer than he had been. That, is an ultimate sign of character. You may no agree with his political views, but you cannot question the mans character and service record.
As for Palin; Matt, have you honestly read up about her and what she has done in her state? She fully understands the energy crisis that faces the states. She did a lot to clean up corruption in her state; and while people may not think she has a lot of “experience”, I dare say she has a bit more on an executive level than dear old Obama. Yes, she is being investigated for corruption, but if you actually read into the investigation rather than skimming the headlines you would realize it appears to be nothing major. She fired a guy who wouldnt fire a cop that shot his stepson with a taser.
September 4th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Kanji- I have read up on her and the “pro’s” come no where near to making up for the lengthy list of terrifying “con’s” that will come with her. http://repliderium.com/random/sarah-palin-as-vp/
September 4th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Hey you people. Check out this post on one of my new favorite blogs along side Matthew’s. It is the blog Harvey Oberfeld’s, a former BCTV federal government reporter. I never did catch the episode talks about here. You’ll get a kick out of this!
http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/?p=87#respond
September 4th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Here is the Daily Show video….oh, you have to watch it….its brilliant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1lCMH8rlHE
September 4th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Last night, watching Palin’s speech, and now as I let the RNC garbage fill my brain during McCain’s speech, I felt extremely uncomfortable knowing there are people out there eating this up…..this stage in which the people try to represent themselves and knowing it’s really just a transparent screen covering their dirty ethics- if only people would take off their rose-colored glasses and see past their nose (did anyone notice the strategically noted moments on camera of Palin’s children? The media is our main political manipulator and it preys on the ignorant who can understand what it’s doing to them)
….Additionally, what scares me, is there’s enough Americans out there who are too complacent in the state of the affairs of the world and I will not rest soundly until I know this election is over and Obama is in office and something can finally be done and, in my opinion, in the correct and thoughtful manner…..
If what I fear will occur, well, I’ve had a lot of restless nights these past few years….I think I can deal with a few more….
Also, Mr.Good-thanks for the wonderful performance in Buffalo last week….I, too, hope you have your name on that wall the most at that club & that is my challenge to you (unfortunately you are currently competing with Bret Michels for that honour-he was up there 3 times so get cracking!)
Anyway, back to the RNC so I have more to complain about….. I’ve come up with a new drinking game-every time you see a ten gallon hat, sip…..so fun-makes it all a little easier….
September 4th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
[quote comment="63900"]Here is the Daily Show video….oh, you have to watch it….its brilliant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1lCMH8rlHE/quote
Freaking CLASSIC!
September 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
[quote comment="63875"]It’s interesting how the ‘08 RNC praises a Vietnam veteran when four years ago, the ‘04 RNC swiftboated one.[/quote]
I don’t think it was the RNC as such. Thomas Bellodeau was a friend of mine, born in Chelmsord ,Mass and raised in Lowell, Mass. On certain days, he would sit on the steps of F&f Photo and Sporting Goods, and tell you all you wanted to hear about his shipmate, John Kerry. He didn’t care much one way or the other until someone asked him. And then he told the truth: “I shot that guy.”.
http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives/019280.php
This is just one item that mentions Tom and his shipmate. There are hundreds more. I believe Tom’s account.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
kanji wrote : “I think you are a little out to lunch on that one. The guy cannot raise his arms past a certain height because of his injuries sustained while captive. His jaw was also broken numerous times which is why he has somewhat of a goofy smile. He also was offered a chance to be released because of his father’s standing in the army; but refused because there had been others who had been there longer than he had been. That, is an ultimate sign of character. You may no agree with his political views, but you cannot question the mans character and service record.”
I respect your opinion, but i must ask how anybody TRULY knows what went on with McCain in Vietnam. I think you’d have injuries too if your plane crashed into a lake and you almost drowned. I’m sure you understand that any politicians “public image” is cultivated by teams of think tanks hired to portray their client in the most positive light. Do you not think this might extend to John McCain as well? How does anybody really know the details as to what happened to McCain in Vietnam? Were any of us there? When i look on the internet, i find more people corroborating criticism of McCain on multiple levels than any coming forward with facts and evidence to back up the story of his entire ordeal.
I’m not trying to diminish the man’s pain and suffering, i know that’s legit, but as we all learned from Saving Private Jessica Lynch, and the “Heroic” Pat Tillman clusterfuck, stories are built around the grains of real events and then sold the public as truth, and we eat it up, cause its easier than facing the grim reality.
Jessica Lynch and Kevin Tillman testify about the lies built around their “stories”.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHgvOHsZdcY
And regarding McCain’s character, this is the same guy who jokes about “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran”. Who mixes up “Islamic Extremists training in Iran with Al-Qaeda training in Iran”.
The Real McCain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
Change From McCain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Ve2j0Dzuc
I don’t make this up, you just need to juxtapose all the lies that come out of all these politicians mouths with the video evidence to back it up.
How about this for a crackpot theory? McCain passes on into the netherworld in some way, either before election or just after (presuming he wins) and his wife Cindy (member of Council on Foreign Relations) takes the reigns.. then you have a duel between the likes of “Tough Widow, and Tough Mother VS. The Shifty “Lets Make It About Race & Fear instead of viewing each other as Human Brothers and Sisters” Hawks-As-Doves-Sorta-Kinda-At-Least-We’re-Not-Bush guys. Can you imagine a Repub/Demo ticket that was Woman and Woman Vs. Black and White? It’s a distraction party for months!
It’s not that i think McCain is evil, he’s just a puppet. If he really is a hero, I’ll eat my hat. Or maybe things in Election-land are a little more manipulated than people want or care to think about. Read Joseph Campbell.. People love a myth. Sometimes it gives us hope. Other times it acts as a distraction. Obama probably was cool until he got seduced by the darkside. That’s just what happens. Go along to get along, or you never rise. Rules of the game, my friend.
Palin is an attractive lady and her selection is designed to immediately snag all the would-be Hilary voters who just don’t want to vote for Obama, because apparently its more important for a woman than a black man to be president of the United States Corporation. As if your sex or colour of your skin has any bearing on the colour you bleed, or the soul you house inside your body. As if sex or colour affects the corporate donations these candidates feed off of in the endless loop of lobbyist-backscratching-gladhand-suckjobbing. As if sex or colour has any bearing on the topics no one wants to talk about. Ending the Wars NOW. Fixing the Monetary System NOW. Diverting Military money to ending Poverty NOW. Fixing the Problems in North America before we fix the problems in any other country.
We need to clean our own back yard, but Obamacain just wants to burn tires, charge us peeps for their coke and whores, and then go party in other peoples back yard, and drink all their beer. Not cool man, just not cool.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
[quote comment="63894"][quote comment="63889"]maybe they’re crazy, but those dregs from http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com are saying:
As for Palin; Matt, have you honestly read up about her and what she has done in her state? She fully understands the energy crisis that faces the states. She did a lot to clean up corruption in her state; and while people may not think she has a lot of “experience”, I dare say she has a bit more on an executive level than dear old Obama. Yes, she is being investigated for corruption, but if you actually read into the investigation rather than skimming the headlines you would realize it appears to be nothing major. She fired a guy who wouldnt fire a cop that shot his stepson with a taser.[/quote]
How does she understand the “energy crisis” and what is her plan other than drill now?
September 4th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
You all may have seen this already.
Jon Stewart’s dissection of the contradictions of the Sarah Palin camp, including the gender card, teenage pregnancy and the “deep deep” sexism.
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart/full-episodes/#clip89002
Highly recommended.
-g-
September 4th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
[quote comment="63891"]Look at Obama’s time before he was in office. He could have had an easy career. He worked to a point in college where very few can say they got to in that respect, and turned down jobs that could have made him rich. Instead he went and helped people. He gave them something that nobody with his credentials would have(in my opinion). If that does not show a unique ability to be a leader, then what does?[/quote]
Are you kidding me? Obama has openly admit to doing drugs in college. No “I didn’t inhale” bullshit either. He’s said he smoked marijuana and done cocaine.
I don’t know how that’s exactly a point where very few can say that got to in college. Hell I got there easy enough. Stop glorifying something which you obviously don’t have a clear understanding of.
Do I want Obama to be my next President? Yes. Am I going to turn my head at his faults and his shaky economic policies? No. I’m going to embrace them as learning experiences that he’s wiser for going through.
The USA needs to go back to a conservative foreign policy or maybe even strike the term from the requirements for being a leader. This country has so many glaring problems that it’s going to take more than two four year terms to correct. Fix the dependence on oil, fix the illegal immigration problem, fix the obvious taxation loopholes that are driving small business into bankruptcy and elevating corporations to the real leaders of the capitalistic world.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“Sarah Palin is the Republican Vice Presidential candidate. Her son is due to deploy to Iraq on September 11th (something that was, of course, mentioned in her recent speech).”
I can’t believe that date was set by accident. That’s yet another crass plug for the boogyman.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Dear Mr. Good,
When the Vietnam vets came home, they were not welcome in their own country. They were looked at sideways, as though criminal. I defy you to find one ticker tape parade for those vets in any major US centre upon their return - unlike the jubilant and triumphant victories and homecomings of both the fist and second world wars. And then there are the injuries, both physical and mental. It’s no wonder Vietnam veterans feel so disenfranchised in their own country - they are.
On a lighter note, when you look at John McCain, does anyone out there think of Hank Hill’s dad, Cotton Hill, who had his shins blown away in the second world war - then later had his feet attached to his knees making him a foot shorter? Sorry - I can’t help myself…..
September 5th, 2008 at 7:09 am
How does moose-hunting belong between conservative and fanatic? Isn’t her husband like an Eskimo or some such; and they’re from Alaska.
I think the real most-important point here is that moose are majestic and a nutritional, zero-fat, non-processed staple to a 100-mile, macrobiotic or omnivorous diet.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:11 am
This a very good post. We need strong voices to remind us what a fabulously accomplished mistake the Vietnam war was. Our shared history and common future demands it.
I hadn’t realized that about the suicides rates of veterans of that war. It is startling. I suppose the war itself was literally a kind of mass suicide for everyone. To truly dispel this illusion - to my understanding - killing or murder does not end the murdered; it is merely an affirmation of suicide by the murderer.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:17 am
[quote comment="63922"]How does moose-hunting belong between conservative and fanatic? Isn’t her husband like an Eskimo or some such; and they’re from Alaska.
I think the real most-important point here is that moose are majestic and a nutritional, zero-fat, non-processed staple to a 100-mile, macrobiotic or omnivorous diet.[/quote]
You mean he’s “Inuit”? And they’re from more than Alaska. And it was sarcasm.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
“But the truth remains that the dregs of US society did largely fight the Vietnam war, and are also fighting the war in Iraq. ”
Remember that during the Vietnam War conscription was in place and many people from all walks of life were dragged into the war, including some with criminal records, however, to label the majority of Vietnam veterans as the “dregs of society” is insulting. That goes doubly for the present members of the US military serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US military personnel that I might, and served with, while in the Canadian military were well trained and highly educated. In fact, if you looked at the stats you would probably find that the majority of the US servicemen and women serving overseas are probably better educated than the majority of posters on this board.
BTW, I’m still waiting for the URL for the info you had posted in your article about the number of US personnel involved in criminal activity.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
props for mentioning Bastogne; I have been watching so much Band of Brothers that its giving me f’ing nightmares…I’m guessing alot of people haven’t heard about the epic battle our boys fought in WWI in Passchendaele, Belgium, but apparently the film about it is being debuted at TIFF and comes to theaters sometime in October…lets hope its not as bad as Paul Gross’ acting skills. blech.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:46 am
[quote comment="63927"]BTW, I’m still waiting for the URL for the info you had posted in your article about the number of US personnel involved in criminal activity.[/quote]
Um. Comment 6.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
[quote comment="63927"]
Remember that during the Vietnam War conscription was in place and many people from all walks of life were dragged into the war, including some with criminal records, however, to label the majority of Vietnam veterans as the “dregs of society” is insulting. That goes doubly for the present members of the US military serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US military personnel that I might, and served with, while in the Canadian military were well trained and highly educated. In fact, if you looked at the stats you would probably find that the majority of the US servicemen and women serving overseas are probably better educated than the majority of posters on this board.
[/quote]
And: hey! Don’t refute what you deem to be one generalized, insulting statement with another of your own.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Quoting Farming for Dissidence: “props for mentioning Bastogne; I have been watching so much Band of Brothers that its giving me f’ing nightmares”
Something you might be interested in: My step-Dad is a military historian who lives in Penn. A couple of years ago he went on a “Band of Brothers” trip which started in England and ended with dinner at the Eagles Nest. Pop spent quite a bit of time with Forrest Guth (who’s an original member of Easy Company, 101 Airborne, PIR) while on the trip. Forrest’s wife was also along for the trip - She told Pop that when it gets cold in the winter Forrest still says when crawling into bed “It’s cold tonight honey…but not as cold as I was in Bastogne”
September 5th, 2008 at 11:06 am
[quote comment="63910"][quote comment="63891"]Look at Obama’s time before he was in office. He could have had an easy career. He worked to a point in college where very few can say they got to in that respect, and turned down jobs that could have made him rich. Instead he went and helped people. He gave them something that nobody with his credentials would have(in my opinion). If that does not show a unique ability to be a leader, then what does?[/quote]
Are you kidding me? Obama has openly admit to doing drugs in college. No “I didn’t inhale” bullshit either. He’s said he smoked marijuana and done cocaine.
I don’t know how that’s exactly a point where very few can say that got to in college. Hell I got there easy enough. Stop glorifying something which you obviously don’t have a clear understanding of.
Do I want Obama to be my next President? Yes. Am I going to turn my head at his faults and his shaky economic policies? No. I’m going to embrace them as learning experiences that he’s wiser for going through.
The USA needs to go back to a conservative foreign policy or maybe even strike the term from the requirements for being a leader. This country has so many glaring problems that it’s going to take more than two four year terms to correct. Fix the dependence on oil, fix the illegal immigration problem, fix the obvious taxation loopholes that are driving small business into bankruptcy and elevating corporations to the real leaders of the capitalistic world.[/quote]
Yeah I know that, but have you heard McCain speak of his past mistakes? I am not looking at Obama’s past and saying he didn’t make mistakes but when one looks at McCain talking about his experience in school positively, it makes you wonder if he has learned anything. Especially when he connects that to him being a Maverick in the political sense that he does. If barely being able to pass is something to be used in such a way, I don’t think anything can compare.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
[quote comment="63931"]Quoting Farming for Dissidence: “props for mentioning Bastogne; I have been watching so much Band of Brothers that its giving me f’ing nightmares”
Something you might be interested in: My step-Dad is a military historian who lives in Penn. A couple of years ago he went on a “Band of Brothers” trip which started in England and ended with dinner at the Eagles Nest. Pop spent quite a bit of time with Forrest Guth (who’s an original member of Easy Company, 101 Airborne, PIR) while on the trip. Forrest’s wife was also along for the trip - She told Pop that when it gets cold in the winter Forrest still says when crawling into bed “It’s cold tonight honey…but not as cold as I was in Bastogne”[/quote]
Actually, that line you refer to is in one of the episodes of Band of Brothers, during an interview clip of said veteran, and I have heard of similar sort of tourist trips that included Eindhoven, Bastogne, and the infamous Eagle’s Nest…the story itself fascinates me to no end, as does most things military and war related, but I wonder if that trip like that would take a different sort of toll on a person…
September 5th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I don’t recall it being in the film - sure you are right though - it was however part of a conversation that Pop and Mrs. Guth had. Mr. Guth also commented, when sitting beside Pop (I think in Germany) when this punk rocker with a mohawk and multiple piercings (chain form ear to nose) walked by “Jesus ….she looks like she fell into my tackle box”. Imagine how much the place has changed in 60 years. Pop said they had moments on the trip where the veterans that went along were clearly overwhelmed by the memories brought up by the surroundings. He recalled on of the guys recounting a story about shooting someone through a hedgerow and wondering, before he found the dead German, if he had not accidentally shot one of his own men. However, he said the old guys beemed when the Dutch girls came out to greet them - they are still considered heroes there and very highly regarded.
September 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
[quote comment="63947"]I don’t recall it being in the film - sure you are right though - it was however part of a conversation that Pop and Mrs. Guth had. Mr. Guth also commented, when sitting beside Pop (I think in Germany) when this punk rocker with a mohawk and multiple piercings (chain form ear to nose) walked by “Jesus ….she looks like she fell into my tackle box”. Imagine how much the place has changed in 60 years. Pop said they had moments on the trip where the veterans that went along were clearly overwhelmed by the memories brought up by the surroundings. He recalled on of the guys recounting a story about shooting someone through a hedgerow and wondering, before he found the dead German, if he had not accidentally shot one of his own men. However, he said the old guys beemed when the Dutch girls came out to greet them - they are still considered heroes there and very highly regarded.[/quote]
As they should be
September 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
[quote comment="63929"][quote comment="63927"]BTW, I’m still waiting for the URL for the info you had posted in your article about the number of US personnel involved in criminal activity.[/quote]
Um. Comment 6.[/quote]
KET (and MATTHEW)
Thanks. I was actually looking for an URL not a hyperlink. Time to get new eyeglasses.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
[quote comment="63930"][quote comment="63927"]
Remember that during the Vietnam War conscription was in place and many people from all walks of life were dragged into the war, including some with criminal records, however, to label the majority of Vietnam veterans as the “dregs of society” is insulting. That goes doubly for the present members of the US military serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US military personnel that I might, and served with, while in the Canadian military were well trained and highly educated. In fact, if you looked at the stats you would probably find that the majority of the US servicemen and women serving overseas are probably better educated than the majority of posters on this board.
[/quote]
And: hey! Don’t refute what you deem to be one generalized, insulting statement with another of your own.[/quote]
Hey yourself! For one thing I don’t take Mr. Goods statement as being generalized. To me it was very specific; he was saying that Vietnam and Iraqi veterans are a bunch of losers. As for my statement, again, It is based on actually working with various US military personnel over a 31 year period in the Canadian military. Now my question to you, KET, is how many Vietnam/Iraqi/Afghan (US) veterans have you met?
September 5th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
[quote comment="64020"]
Hey yourself! For one thing I don’t take Mr. Goods statement as being generalized. To me it was very specific; he was saying that Vietnam and Iraqi veterans are a bunch of losers. As for my statement, again, It is based on actually working with various US military personnel over a 31 year period in the Canadian military. Now my question to you, KET, is how many Vietnam/Iraqi/Afghan (US) veterans have you met?[/quote]
“Generalized” as in he was making a general statement about those who fought in that war. I am not interested in defending or refuting that statement. (Having said that, I don’t believe he at all implied that they were “a bunch of losers”, though I suppose that is a question of how you interpret his statement– I took it more as an observation that those fighting were not typically the affluent, the powerful or the privileged). I am merely pointing out that, in defending veterans and those currently serving, you managed to disparage the members of this board and seemingly do not even realize that you have done so. You really have no basis for making any comments with regards to the quality or quantity of our collective education. How many of us have you met?
September 6th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I guess its all a matter of interpretation. I think Mr. Good disparaged US veterans with his statement, while you think I disparaged commentators here about their education. We pretty well agree, to disagree (I don agree with you that to a certain extent the affluent, powerful or privileged do not normally fight). As for meeting any of the commentators, I don’t know since no one uses their real names, nor where they reside. But then I can say the same thing about yourself. Do you know the people, or have meet any the people who post here?
September 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
[quote comment="64113"]Do you know the people, or have meet any the people who post here?[/quote]
I know two but, as for the others, know absolutely nothing about them… which is why I would not dream of speaking about their education (or lack thereof).